Author Topic: Saison 'free-rise' didn't happen  (Read 1892 times)

Offline egg

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Saison 'free-rise' didn't happen
« on: September 21, 2017, 01:42:24 AM »
My first saison on the go, but it hasn't produced the 'free-rise' I was hoping for, so I've had to apply the heat manually.  Anyone had successful self-rises with Belle Saison?

It was 22L of 1.041 pitched with one rehydrated sachet of BS at 66f.  Nice head of yeast after 12-18 hours. I controlled it (fridge/heat) at 66f for 30 hrs before turning off the cooling side.  It stayed pretty much there at 66, edging up maybe 2 degrees at 42 hours before the head started to fade a little and it seemed to be returning to 66, so I took an SG (1.027) at 48 hours for future reference, and set the heat for 69.  It soon looked more active again, and it's now up (manually) to 73 on day 4, but never produced it's own lift.

I've seen reports of this travelling the same difference unassisted.  I perhaps left the calcium a little low (~50ppm) compared to most of my brews, but other than that, I can't think anything else would have caused it to be sluggish.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 01:57:37 AM by egg »

Offline mabrungard

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Re: Saison 'free-rise' didn't happen
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2017, 05:17:37 AM »
If your fermenter isn't in a warm place, the temperature won't rise much. I ferment in my basement and have to place a heating pad by the fermenter to get its temperature up in the case of a beer like a Belgian.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Saison 'free-rise' didn't happen
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2017, 05:18:13 AM »
I don't think heat rise matters that much.  If you have patience, I don't think you need to add any heat.  Give it a few weeks and it will finish fine in the 60s.
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Offline egg

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Re: Saison 'free-rise' didn't happen
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2017, 05:42:06 AM »
I just fancied seeing what the yeast would do on its own, given a safety net of 66.

The fermenter was inside the brewfridge with a tube heater set to 66 (probe taped to the side of the FV under a little insulation).  After 30 hours, the fridge side of the control was turned off, but the heater was left to cut in below 66.  The fermenting beer was never allowed to drop lower.

Now I'm thinking maybe I should have placed the probe in the air space, rather than the outside of the plastic bucket, on this occasion.  The fridge itself was in a colder environment.

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Saison 'free-rise' didn't happen
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2017, 08:02:33 AM »
I think your problem is that the bulk of fermentation was done by the time you cut off the fridge. Most saison strains are aggressive yeast. I've never used that particular strain but expect most exothermic fermentation occurring before you cut off the fridge.

Normally with commercially available saison strains (like 3711, which is similar to Belle's dry strain) I would start in the low 70s and hold there for about twelve hours and then let it free rise up to the mid-80s. It will get into the mid-80s within a day. Once it hits that temperature I'd set the heat to maintain for a few days and then let it cool back to room temperature once fermentation ends.
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Offline egg

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Re: Saison 'free-rise' didn't happen
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2017, 11:42:47 PM »
I think your problem is that the bulk of fermentation was done by the time you cut off the fridge. Most saison strains are aggressive yeast. I've never used that particular strain but expect most exothermic fermentation occurring before you cut off the fridge.

Normally with commercially available saison strains (like 3711, which is similar to Belle's dry strain) I would start in the low 70s and hold there for about twelve hours and then let it free rise up to the mid-80s. It will get into the mid-80s within a day. Once it hits that temperature I'd set the heat to maintain for a few days and then let it cool back to room temperature once fermentation ends.

Thanks for sharing.  I guess if I do it again, I won't have the cooling side on at all.  So you get it driving itself from low 70s to mid 80s with the ambient remaining low 70s? That's more like I was hoping, though after the 30 hours.

I guess I should check: do you all see the term 'free rise' as meaning a rise in heat well beyond ambient, generated solely by the  fermentation, with the ambient temperature initially remaining unaided, at the pitching temperature, like I do? I've now seen a post elsewhere where they pitch at 66 with the fridge set to 77 from the outset, and call that a 'free rise'.

Online Stevie

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Re: Saison 'free-rise' didn't happen
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2017, 07:18:50 AM »
I don’t think you will see mid 80’s in the low 70’s. 6-8° above ambient is what normally see.

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Saison 'free-rise' didn't happen
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2017, 10:01:27 AM »
To me, "free rise" = "hands in the air like you just don't care".

Just doesn't matter.  Up, down, all around, it's all good.

I typically would never recommend application of heat to a fermenter, unless it's really cold and fermentation is stuck.  In the 70s F, this is pretty much impossible.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Saison 'free-rise' didn't happen
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2017, 07:36:55 AM »
I don’t think you will see mid 80’s in the low 70’s. 6-8° above ambient is what normally see.

Yeah, I was not as precise as I could be with my description. I am not letting it free rise to the mid-80s. I set the heat on the fermenter to the mid-80s. The tool I use (reptile tape) will raise temperature on five gallons by about ten degrees and fairly slowly so the temperature reaches the mid-80s with a combination of mechanical heat and fermentation's own heat production. I don't ramp the temperature on the controller. I just set it and let it reach the target temperature on its own temperature curve.
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