Author Topic: Recipe critique.  (Read 2652 times)

Offline curtdogg

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Re: Recipe critique.
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2017, 06:26:57 AM »
I think the ratio is more important than the ppm

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Did you ever brew a dark lord?

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I did, it was more like Rasputin than DL.

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Any tips?

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Check out the perfect Imperial Stout for a good read of advice.  Summary - raise pH 5.5 (which I see in your OP your shooting 5.6),  recirculation, oxygenated, add sugar if any in recipe after primary is going for a couple days, cacao nibs in boil, wp, and use good chocolate powder in the flame out, double the amount of yeast you're thinking, and blended base malt.

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Thanks Jeffers. I'll look for that post.
I appreciate your advise.

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Offline curtdogg

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Re: Recipe critique.
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2017, 11:53:32 AM »
I think the ratio is more important than the ppm

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Did you ever brew a dark lord?

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I did, it was more like Rasputin than DL.

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Any tips?

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Check out the perfect Imperial Stout for a good read of advice.  Summary - raise pH 5.5 (which I see in your OP your shooting 5.6),  recirculation, oxygenated, add sugar if any in recipe after primary is going for a couple days, cacao nibs in boil, wp, and use good chocolate powder in the flame out, double the amount of yeast you're thinking, and blended base malt.

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Thanks Jeffers. I'll look for that post.
I appreciate your advise.

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Lots of good advise in that forum. I didnt see anything regarding mash thickness. Can you share your experience with a large grist. I normally shoot for 1.8-2 qrt per pound for 12 lbs,  but with nearly 20 lbs of grain would 1.5 qrt per lbs effect my efficiency? Im using a Robobrew with a 8 gallon liquid volume. The malt pipe reduces that to about 5gal.

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Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Recipe critique.
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2017, 11:56:00 AM »
I think the ratio is more important than the ppm

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Did you ever brew a dark lord?

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I did, it was more like Rasputin than DL.

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk
Any tips?

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
Check out the perfect Imperial Stout for a good read of advice.  Summary - raise pH 5.5 (which I see in your OP your shooting 5.6),  recirculation, oxygenated, add sugar if any in recipe after primary is going for a couple days, cacao nibs in boil, wp, and use good chocolate powder in the flame out, double the amount of yeast you're thinking, and blended base malt.

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Thanks Jeffers. I'll look for that post.
I appreciate your advise.

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Lots of good advise in that forum. I didnt see anything regarding mash thickness. Can you share your experience with a large grist. I normally shoot for 1.8-2 qrt per pound for 12 lbs,  but with nearly 20 lbs of grain would 1.5 qrt per lbs effect my efficiency? Im using a Robobrew with a 8 gallon liquid volume. The malt pipe reduces that to about 5gal.

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IIRC it was 2.6 close to full volume, I just hoisted the BIAB, and pumped to full volume

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Offline curtdogg

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Re: Recipe critique.
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2017, 09:35:55 PM »
I think the ratio is more important than the ppm

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Do you mean sulfate/chloride?

I think im going with 100ppm sulfate and 80ppm chloride.   I don't want a minerally tasting stout.

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Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Recipe critique.
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2017, 05:30:24 AM »
I think the ratio is more important than the ppm

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Do you mean sulfate/chloride?

I think im going with 100ppm sulfate and 80ppm chloride.   I don't want a minerally tasting stout.

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Yes, if it's 300:100 or 150:50 so4/cl IIRC produce indistinguishable beers.

I think a stout stands up to minerally water very well.  My .02 cents.

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« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 05:32:04 AM by JJeffers09 »
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Online denny

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Re: Recipe critique.
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2017, 09:34:13 AM »
Yes, if it's 300:100 or 150:50 so4/cl IIRC produce indistinguishable beers.

I think a stout stands up to minerally water very well.  My .02 cents.

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That has not been my experience.  I fond that the absolute values are more important than the ratio.
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Offline stpug

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Re: Recipe critique.
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2017, 09:56:44 AM »
Yes, if it's 300:100 or 150:50 so4/cl IIRC produce indistinguishable beers.

That has not been my experience.  I fond that the absolute values are more important than the ratio.

100% agree with Denny. Forget ratios, focus on concentrations.  A ratio is just a byproduct of the concentration anyway.  While the example in quotes above actually uses the concentration values, they are technically both 3:1 ratios but will produce significant differences in the final beer.

As for how chloride and sulfate will affect your perception of the beer, it's not about sweetness vs bitterness.  It's more along the lines of fullness vs dryness.  Chloride does not make a beer sweeter, however it does increase a perception of a fuller (bodied) beer, and since it doesn't enhance the dryness then it may be perceived as "less dry" which folks might construe as "more sweet".  A similar but opposite thing happens with sulfate where it enhances a dry finish which has the potential to increase perceived bitterness, and in turn reduce perceived sweetness (but that takes decently elevated levels in my experience).  Some similar but different explanations can be said of sodium and magnesium as well in regards to perception of enhancing flavors and increasing minerality and/or bitterness.  And, no, reduction of sulfate/chloride to low (but reasonable) levels does not make a bland beer or increase blandness.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 09:58:58 AM by stpug »

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Recipe critique.
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2017, 10:01:18 AM »
And, no, reduction of sulfate/chloride to low (but reasonable) levels does not make a bland beer or increase blandness.

I misspoke slightly previously.  Thanks for cleaning this up.  I totally agree.
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Offline curtdogg

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Re: Recipe critique.
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2017, 08:46:55 PM »
Yes, if it's 300:100 or 150:50 so4/cl IIRC produce indistinguishable beers.

That has not been my experience.  I fond that the absolute values are more important than the ratio.

100% agree with Denny. Forget ratios, focus on concentrations.  A ratio is just a byproduct of the concentration anyway.  While the example in quotes above actually uses the concentration values, they are technically both 3:1 ratios but will produce significant differences in the final beer.

As for how chloride and sulfate will affect your perception of the beer, it's not about sweetness vs bitterness.  It's more along the lines of fullness vs dryness.  Chloride does not make a beer sweeter, however it does increase a perception of a fuller (bodied) beer, and since it doesn't enhance the dryness then it may be perceived as "less dry" which folks might construe as "more sweet".  A similar but opposite thing happens with sulfate where it enhances a dry finish which has the potential to increase perceived bitterness, and in turn reduce perceived sweetness (but that takes decently elevated levels in my experience).  Some similar but different explanations can be said of sodium and magnesium as well in regards to perception of enhancing flavors and increasing minerality and/or bitterness.  And, no, reduction of sulfate/chloride to low (but reasonable) levels does not make a bland beer or increase blandness.
Thanks for your input. Ive been reading alot about this lately and my understanding is exactly how you explained it above. I have made a minerally overly smokey stout before, and i want to avoid that again. I think my biggest mistake last time was a mash pH of 5.2, I believe that is what caused the  smoky ashy flavor.
With that said,  this time around I will be using a higher pH 5.5-5.6 and going with what i feel is a "ratio" that will help enhance both body and a dry finish. 80s04/60Calchl ppm.

Please share your thoughts if you have any.


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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Recipe critique.
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2017, 05:07:58 AM »
Yes, if it's 300:100 or 150:50 so4/cl IIRC produce indistinguishable beers.

That has not been my experience.  I fond that the absolute values are more important than the ratio.

100% agree with Denny. Forget ratios, focus on concentrations.  A ratio is just a byproduct of the concentration anyway.  While the example in quotes above actually uses the concentration values, they are technically both 3:1 ratios but will produce significant differences in the final beer.

As for how chloride and sulfate will affect your perception of the beer, it's not about sweetness vs bitterness.  It's more along the lines of fullness vs dryness.  Chloride does not make a beer sweeter, however it does increase a perception of a fuller (bodied) beer, and since it doesn't enhance the dryness then it may be perceived as "less dry" which folks might construe as "more sweet".  A similar but opposite thing happens with sulfate where it enhances a dry finish which has the potential to increase perceived bitterness, and in turn reduce perceived sweetness (but that takes decently elevated levels in my experience).  Some similar but different explanations can be said of sodium and magnesium as well in regards to perception of enhancing flavors and increasing minerality and/or bitterness.  And, no, reduction of sulfate/chloride to low (but reasonable) levels does not make a bland beer or increase blandness.

Totally agree.
Jon H.

Offline joelv

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Re: Recipe critique.
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2017, 12:38:34 PM »
I just brewed a variation of this about two months ago.
RO water
2.5 grams Gypsum
3 grams calcium chloride
8 grams baking soda (all in mash)

I had about 22 lbs. of fermentables in the mash with 2.5 being highly roasted and 1.5 total crystal (some 40, some 90, some 120)




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Offline curtdogg

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Re: Recipe critique.
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2017, 07:02:03 PM »
I just brewed a variation of this about two months ago.
RO water
2.5 grams Gypsum
3 grams calcium chloride
8 grams baking soda (all in mash)

I had about 22 lbs. of fermentables in the mash with 2.5 being highly roasted and 1.5 total crystal (some 40, some 90, some 120)




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8 grams holy schnikey. What was your mash pH?

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Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Recipe critique.
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2017, 07:06:49 PM »
I just brewed a variation of this about two months ago.
RO water
2.5 grams Gypsum
3 grams calcium chloride
8 grams baking soda (all in mash)

I had about 22 lbs. of fermentables in the mash with 2.5 being highly roasted and 1.5 total crystal (some 40, some 90, some 120)




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8 grams holy schnikey. What was your mash pH?

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I was thinking the same thing, probably 5.7-8 target? With what 2#+ of roasted malt?!

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