[snowtiger87]

This is the grain bill from the Celebration clone recipe in the July/August 2017 Zymurgy issue.

12 lb. (5.44 kg) UK pale malt
1 lb. (0.45 kg) 60° L crystal malt
8 oz. (227 g) 80° L crystal malt
8 oz. (227 g) dextrin malt
2 oz. (57 g) chocolate malt

I plan to bump the recipe up to 11 gallons and am thinking the following:

- I don't see any reason for dextrin malt in the recipe so I will leave it out. With the specialty grains and starting OG I think this beer will have plenty of mouthfeel.

- 2 lbs of crystal 60 and 1 lb of crystal 80 seem like WAY too much so I think I will go with 1.5 lbs of crystal 60 and stay at .5 lb of crystal 80

- I think I will stay with only 2 oz of chocolate malt for 11 gallons unless the color doesn't seem red enough and then I will cold steep the other 2 oz and strain into the boil

Thoughts ?

[hopfenundmalz]

Good to see a post from you.

On the Sierra Nevada site they have a different malt bill.

http://www.sierranevada.com/beer/seasonal/celebration-ale

[natebriscoe]

In past years they have published a much different recipe.
Like 90% 2row, 10% c60.
Check out BYO DEC 2012

[snowtiger87]

Hmm, so no chocolate malt huh? The Sierra Nevada site doesn't give me an SRM but I can make a good guess. I have to plug the numbers but here is what I am thinking:

12 lb. (5.44 kg) 2 row malt
1 lb. (0.45 kg) 60° L crystal malt
8 oz. (227 g) 120° L crystal malt

Then have 2 oz chocolate malt on hand in case it is not red enough.

[denny]

Hmm, so no chocolate malt huh? The Sierra Nevada site doesn't give me an SRM but I can make a good guess. I have to plug the numbers but here is what I am thinking:

12 lb. (5.44 kg) 2 row malt
1 lb. (0.45 kg) 60° L crystal malt
8 oz. (227 g) 120° L crystal malt

Then have 2 oz chocolate malt on hand in case it is not red enough.

Still off.  Nothing but pale and 60L.  I guarantee it.

[snowtiger87]

Thanks Denny. I will take your word for it. Seems like a lot of crystal malt to me but how about this:

12 lb. (5.44 kg) 2 row malt
2 lb. (0.45 kg) 60° L crystal malt

That comes to a SRM of 13.85. Doesn't seem red enough but I will try it and can still "cheat" if the color doesn't turn out right. I will adjust my mash temps so it doesn't turn out to be a crystal bomb.

I have fresh Cascade, Chinook, and Centennial hops arriving soon to use.

[denny]

Thanks Denny. I will take your word for it. Seems like a lot of crystal malt to me but how about this:

12 lb. (5.44 kg) 2 row malt
2 lb. (0.45 kg) 60° L crystal malt

That comes to a SRM of 13.85. Doesn't seem red enough but I will try it and can still "cheat" if the color doesn't turn out right. I will adjust my mash temps so it doesn't turn out to be a crystal bomb.

I have fresh Cascade, Chinook, and Centennial hops arriving soon to use.

More pale, less crystal.  Here's the recipe you want to use.....https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=9525.msg117411#msg117411

I was at Beer Camp at SN when they were brewing it and can verify that this is the recipe they used.

[santoch]

Denny-
By chance, does SN use a mash press? 

I ask because I have it on very good authority (ie, one of their brewers) from another North Western brewery that does and as a result, the grain bills they use don't match what we can get out of our homebrew setups. 

We were trying to clone their flagship, and turned to him for guidance.  While he couldn't and didn't give us the recipe (contractually could not), he hinted that we were using far more dark grains than they do.  Their mash press seems to produce a multiplier effect on the medium and dark malts that yields far higher SRM than we typically get at home.

[hopfenundmalz]

No they have lauter tuns. The brewing systems are GE Huppmann. 

Is the PNW brewery you refer to in Alaska?

[mabrungard]

I ask because I have it on very good authority (ie, one of their brewers) from another North Western brewery that does and as a result, the grain bills they use don't match what we can get out of our homebrew setups. 

Um, I'm going to have to call: BS. Using a mash press does not change the character of the wort that is expressed from the grist. It just helps speed the lautering. If it were true, all the BIAB brewers would be reporting the differences.

[santoch]

Is the PNW brewery you refer to in Alaska?

Yup

[santoch]

I ask because I have it on very good authority (ie, one of their brewers) from another North Western brewery that does and as a result, the grain bills they use don't match what we can get out of our homebrew setups. 

Um, I'm going to have to call: BS. Using a mash press does not change the character of the wort that is expressed from the grist. It just helps speed the lautering. If it were true, all the BIAB brewers would be reporting the differences.

We couldn't come close to the SRM they get.  Not even close.
The brewer is a good friend.  He wouldn't lie to me.

[Iliff Ave]

From memory isn't Celebration a deep red/copper color? I don't see how the color estimate of under 10 SRM from Denny's clone recipe would get to that hue. It seems there has to be some explanation...

[stpug]

Thanks Denny. I will take your word for it. Seems like a lot of crystal malt to me but how about this:

12 lb. (5.44 kg) 2 row malt
2 lb. (0.45 kg) 60° L crystal malt

That comes to a SRM of 13.85. Doesn't seem red enough but I will try it and can still "cheat" if the color doesn't turn out right. I will adjust my mash temps so it doesn't turn out to be a crystal bomb.

I have fresh Cascade, Chinook, and Centennial hops arriving soon to use.

You've probably already brewed this but here's my take: I think you're essentially going for a "red" beer color, and generally speaking a 13srm coupled with excellent clarity will produce a nice "red" beer color.  Granted, srm colors output by softwares are only an estimation so it may take a couple brews to dial in the perfect color you're after but 13srm is a great place to start.  Color can be affected by many factors so nailing a perfect color and flavor may take a few batches to dial in when you have a good starting point.

As far as your recipe above, I would dial down the C60 a smidge and roll with it for a first iteration.  Maybe 1.5-1.75lbs C60, and the rest base malt to hit your OG.  Couple this with 1056 yeast, a reasonable mash temp and you should hit 80% attenuation.  The crystal will come through (that's the point) but should not be overly sweet due to the attenuation and characteristics of 1056.  Clarify the beer however you choose - just get it nicely clear to get a beautiful red, otherwise you'll be in brownish-red territory. Hit the hopping as desired.

If you miss the mark this time, adjust next time.  It's beer!  It's good!  Drink up!

[denny]

From memory isn't Celebration a deep red/copper color? I don't see how the color estimate of under 10 SRM from Denny's clone recipe would get to that hue. It seems there has to be some explanation...

What can I say?  I watched it being brewed and saw the ingredients.  I talked to Steve Dresler about the recipe.  The recipe I posted is what they tell me they use.