Author Topic: Brewing Salts in Boil  (Read 1859 times)

Offline Mike-Ale

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Brewing Salts in Boil
« on: October 10, 2017, 02:18:20 PM »
Hey all,
I’m brewing this weekend and for the third time on a 3 kettle herms system. I am going to be fly sparging and using the remainder of the water in the HLT during the sparge until I get to my boil volume. I’ve been using Cal’s site as a reference which is incredible and full of great information. My question is this:  Cal recommends adding your sparge salts to the boil after the hot break has occurred. I would have thought adding them prior to the hot break would be more beneficial in creating a healthy break. Any insights would be much appreciated. Thanks!


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Offline denny

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Re: Brewing Salts in Boil
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2017, 02:36:10 PM »
Frankly I don't see why it would matter much.
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Offline syncopadence

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Re: Brewing Salts in Boil
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2017, 03:22:47 PM »
This is a total guess so don't take much stock in it, but I would think adding them after the hot break would better retain the minerals in the wort, rather than them coagulating into the break, and being left behind in the kettle. Again, just a theory. I've always added mine at the start of the boil.

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Offline jekeane

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Re: Brewing Salts in Boil
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2017, 05:28:52 AM »
I have the same setup I add my sparge / boil salts when there is enough wort in the kettle to make sure they dissolve and don't stick to the bottom of the kettle.

Offline factory

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Re: Brewing Salts in Boil
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2017, 06:23:23 AM »
Have I been doing this wrong?  I've always added my sparge salts and whatever acid I need directly to the sparge water in my HLT.  And then run that through the mash.  Should I be adding it to the kettle?  Or is this a different process entirely?

Offline mabrungard

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Re: Brewing Salts in Boil
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2017, 07:11:38 AM »
Cal recommends adding your sparge salts to the boil after the hot break has occurred. I would have thought adding them prior to the hot break would be more beneficial in creating a healthy break. Any insights would be much appreciated. Thanks!

Curious recommendation. I can't envision a reason why that approach is more useful or beneficial than adding the salts to the sparging water. Calcium salts improve hot break formation and there is a minor reduction in calcium levels during the boil due to hot break entrainment and entrainment in the mash. In my opinion, there is no need for the extra few ppm of calcium in your finished wort since malt supplies ALL the calcium needed for yeast metabolism.

It sounds like the recommendation is intended to increase the wort's calcium content as much as possible. Adding calcium to brewing water does improve yeast flocculation and beer clearing, but its not a requirement for fermentation and producing a high quality brew. If clearer beer is your concern, just add a few more ppm of your desired calcium salts to the sparging water in the first place. 
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Offline Mike-Ale

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Re: Brewing Salts in Boil
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2017, 08:09:03 AM »
Martin,
My concern/question is based more on the process and making sure I am adding salts in the most effective way.  (This system is new to me).I am filling my 20 gallon HLT with 20 gallons of my local tap water, treating it with a Camden tablet and then using about 1/2(ish) of that water to mash. I am using BeerSmith as my brew software and have selected the checkbox that allows you to split your water amounts almost equally in half so that I can keep the herms coil submerged in water until I sparge. The mash water is treated prior to the grain going in. I am then using the remainder of the water in the HLT to fly sparge. I am not treating it previous to it entering the MT because it is more water than I need. I am using all of the 20 gallons until my boil volume hits my mark and then discarding the remainder. This is where my question/confusion comes in as far as treating the water in the kettle. It seems like the best way to treat it is to add my “sparge” salts to the kettle as that would be the correct amount of water. My old system was a cooler and BK where each round of water was treated before touching the grains but I am not seeing a way to do that with this new system. I am open to any suggestions!!  Thanks!!


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Offline Mike-Ale

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Re: Brewing Salts in Boil
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2017, 08:38:26 AM »
Have I been doing this wrong?  I've always added my sparge salts and whatever acid I need directly to the sparge water in my HLT.  And then run that through the mash.  Should I be adding it to the kettle?  Or is this a different process entirely?
Factory,
I am trying to figure out when the salts should be added because I am using all of the water in the HLT which is more than the water calculated by my software and what I input into Bru n Water if that makes sense...


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Offline jekeane

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Re: Brewing Salts in Boil
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2017, 09:07:35 AM »
Martin,
My concern/question is based more on the process and making sure I am adding salts in the most effective way.  (This system is new to me).I am filling my 20 gallon HLT with 20 gallons of my local tap water, treating it with a Camden tablet and then using about 1/2(ish) of that water to mash. I am using BeerSmith as my brew software and have selected the checkbox that allows you to split your water amounts almost equally in half so that I can keep the herms coil submerged in water until I sparge. The mash water is treated prior to the grain going in. I am then using the remainder of the water in the HLT to fly sparge. I am not treating it previous to it entering the MT because it is more water than I need. I am using all of the 20 gallons until my boil volume hits my mark and then discarding the remainder. This is where my question/confusion comes in as far as treating the water in the kettle. It seems like the best way to treat it is to add my “sparge” salts to the kettle as that would be the correct amount of water. My old system was a cooler and BK where each round of water was treated before touching the grains but I am not seeing a way to do that with this new system. I am open to any suggestions!!  Thanks!!


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I do exactly what you are doing for the same reasons.  My sparge water is 11g to keep my coil submerged but I only use 5 or so of it while fly sparging.  I treat water in the mash tun for my mash.  I add acid only to my sparge water in the HLT using the 11g total volume on the sparge sheet in Brun. and Then i add my "sparge" salts to the boil kettle while filling it. 

When you add the salts likely doesn't matter much although as martin mentioned above they can help form your hot break so it seems to me adding them pre boil is the way to go.

Offline Mike-Ale

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Re: Brewing Salts in Boil
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2017, 09:15:30 AM »
Martin,
My concern/question is based more on the process and making sure I am adding salts in the most effective way.  (This system is new to me).I am filling my 20 gallon HLT with 20 gallons of my local tap water, treating it with a Camden tablet and then using about 1/2(ish) of that water to mash. I am using BeerSmith as my brew software and have selected the checkbox that allows you to split your water amounts almost equally in half so that I can keep the herms coil submerged in water until I sparge. The mash water is treated prior to the grain going in. I am then using the remainder of the water in the HLT to fly sparge. I am not treating it previous to it entering the MT because it is more water than I need. I am using all of the 20 gallons until my boil volume hits my mark and then discarding the remainder. This is where my question/confusion comes in as far as treating the water in the kettle. It seems like the best way to treat it is to add my “sparge” salts to the kettle as that would be the correct amount of water. My old system was a cooler and BK where each round of water was treated before touching the grains but I am not seeing a way to do that with this new system. I am open to any suggestions!!  Thanks!!


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I do exactly what you are doing for the same reasons.  My sparge water is 11g to keep my coil submerged but I only use 5 or so of it while fly sparging.  I treat water in the mash tun for my mash.  I add acid only to my sparge water in the HLT using the 11g total volume on the sparge sheet in Brun. and Then i add my "sparge" salts to the boil kettle while filling it. 

When you add the salts likely doesn't matter much although as martin mentioned above they can help form your hot break so it seems to me adding them pre boil is the way to go.
Jekeane,

That seems to make the most sense to me. Are you happy with the way your beers have turned out?  Have you noticed any negative effects from this process?


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Offline Mike-Ale

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Re: Brewing Salts in Boil
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2017, 09:36:18 AM »
Cal recommends adding your sparge salts to the boil after the hot break has occurred. I would have thought adding them prior to the hot break would be more beneficial in creating a healthy break. Any insights would be much appreciated. Thanks!

Curious recommendation. I can't envision a reason why that approach is more useful or beneficial than adding the salts to the sparging water. Calcium salts improve hot break formation and there is a minor reduction in calcium levels during the boil due to hot break entrainment and entrainment in the mash. In my opinion, there is no need for the extra few ppm of calcium in your finished wort since malt supplies ALL the calcium needed for yeast metabolism.

It sounds like the recommendation is intended to increase the wort's calcium content as much as possible. Adding calcium to brewing water does improve yeast flocculation and beer clearing, but its not a requirement for fermentation and producing a high quality brew. If clearer beer is your concern, just add a few more ppm of your desired calcium salts to the sparging water in the first place.
Martin,
Sorry for all of the questions but can I use Bru n Water on a Kindle Fire?


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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Brewing Salts in Boil
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2017, 12:34:16 PM »
I would add salts to the 20 gal of HLT water to create the water profile you want and then use only the amount of water you need for wort production. Waste the unused water.

Its important to understand that the alkalinity (bicarbonate content) of mashing and sparging water can be quite different. You may have differing acid requirements for each brewing component.

Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the Kindle Fire. I don't expect that it has the capability to run Excel or LibreOffice...but I could be wrong.
Martin B
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Offline stpug

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Re: Brewing Salts in Boil
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2017, 12:55:21 PM »
I've also seen brun water running on google's sheets app, which can likely be accessed/run from a kindle fire (assumption here).  I'd say, "it's possible"  ;D (try it out and report back if you would)

Offline Mike-Ale

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Re: Brewing Salts in Boil
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2017, 01:14:17 PM »
I've also seen brun water running on google's sheets app, which can likely be accessed/run from a kindle fire (assumption here).  I'd say, "it's possible"  ;D (try it out and report back if you would)
Stpug,
I won’t be able to report back for a while. Looking into buying either a fire or an iPad but probably not until next spring. If I remember I will certainly post.


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Offline Mike-Ale

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Re: Brewing Salts in Boil
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2017, 01:16:23 PM »
I would add salts to the 20 gal of HLT water to create the water profile you want and then use only the amount of water you need for wort production. Waste the unused water.

Its important to understand that the alkalinity (bicarbonate content) of mashing and sparging water can be quite different. You may have differing acid requirements for each brewing component.

Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the Kindle Fire. I don't expect that it has the capability to run Excel or LibreOffice...but I could be wrong.
Martin,
So are you saying to treat it (on the software side) as a no sparge and then split the water into two equal proportions to fly sparge with?


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