Author Topic: Old Style Bavarian Lager  (Read 3651 times)

Offline rail

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Re: Old Style Bavarian Lager
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2010, 10:48:15 AM »
Looking through the BJCP Style Guideline, is Marzen/Oktoberfest a Traditional Bock or Dark Lager?

Offline blatz

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Re: Old Style Bavarian Lager
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2010, 10:55:15 AM »
Looking through the BJCP Style Guideline, is Marzen/Oktoberfest a Traditional Bock or Dark Lager?

it's European amber lager 3b
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Offline rail

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Re: Old Style Bavarian Lager
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2010, 10:24:58 PM »
Marzen/Oktoberfest are the same with slight variations?

Vienna: creamy and smooth, with slightly less ABV than Marzen?

Charles

Offline skyler

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Re: Old Style Bavarian Lager
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2010, 10:28:53 PM »

complex malt/toast = vienna/marzen

but not breadlike or strong.  

Bread crusts fall into a dunkel profile.



To be fair, a märzen/oktoberfest is a fair amount stronger than, say, bud light. i have known people who drink PBR when they want something "strong" because it is higher in alcohol than coors light.

I also think of a märzen as rather creamy for a lager... i would say he should shoot for a 1.055ish Oktoberfest... or maybe just something similar with an ale yeast.

Offline bluesman

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Re: Old Style Bavarian Lager
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2010, 04:22:34 AM »

complex malt/toast = vienna/marzen

but not breadlike or strong. 

Bread crusts fall into a dunkel profile.



To be fair, a märzen/oktoberfest is a fair amount stronger than, say, bud light. i have known people who drink PBR when they want something "strong" because it is higher in alcohol than coors light.

I also think of a märzen as rather creamy for a lager... i would say he should shoot for a 1.055ish Oktoberfest... or maybe just something similar with an ale yeast.

Strong is a relative term. To me strong implies that there is evidence of alcohol in the aftertaste which is not the case for European Amber Lagers.  They start in the 1.046-1.057 and ABV's in the 4.4-5.7% range. Marzen's are smooth, clean and rather rich with a complex malt character.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 05:58:38 AM by bluesman »
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Offline blatz

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Re: Old Style Bavarian Lager
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2010, 05:30:56 AM »
Marzen/Oktoberfest are the same with slight variations?

Vienna: creamy and smooth, with slightly less ABV than Marzen?

Charles


marzen/oktoberfest are interchangeable monikers for the most part.  some brewers make a 'festbier' which is a bit stronger, but that is rare to see today.

vienna and marzen are very, very close. vienna is usually a little smaller OG than marzen, and is usually most of all vienna malt (duh) whereas marzen is often some mix of vienna, munich and/or pils.
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Offline rail

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Re: Old Style Bavarian Lager
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2010, 10:46:33 AM »
Now that I understand the style I enjoy, "Vienna", the study begins on learning how to brew the Lager.

Storage, I would assume other than wooden kegs, aluminum is the next best thing for kegging?

Should I ask kegs questions here or in another thread?

Charles



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Re: Old Style Bavarian Lager
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2010, 11:12:57 AM »
I think you're getting ahead of yourself.  You need to check into the equipment and techniques you need for the actual brewing, fermenting, and lagering stages.
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Offline weithman5

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Re: Old Style Bavarian Lager
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2010, 11:16:03 AM »
read, read, read, read.
practice practice practice

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Offline rail

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Re: Old Style Bavarian Lager
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2010, 11:33:42 AM »
I now that I am getting the cart before the horse, but I plan to metal spin my own kegs. Just need to now if it is common to store Lager in aluminum kegs so that I can start fabricating the mandrels to spin the kegs.
 

Offline blatz

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Re: Old Style Bavarian Lager
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2010, 11:43:05 AM »
I now that I am getting the cart before the horse, but I plan to metal spin my own kegs. Just need to now if it is common to store Lager in aluminum kegs so that I can start fabricating the mandrels to spin the kegs.
 

SS not aluminum.
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Offline redbeerman

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Re: Old Style Bavarian Lager
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2010, 11:45:13 AM »
Kegs are usually stainless steel.  Beer is slightly acidic and does not play well with untreated aluminum over the long term.  Used kegs can be had for a more reasonable price than the cost of fabrication.  You really need to research and actually start brewing before you get to this stage.  Just my $.02
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Re: Old Style Bavarian Lager
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2010, 12:00:14 PM »
Wooden kegs would need to be treated with brewers pitch so as not to impart wood flavor to your beer. There's no need to spin your own kegs when good corny kegs can be had so cheaply and easily. Buy the kegs and spend your time learning about the beer and building yourself a keggerator.

+1 to putting the cart inf ront of the horse. Brewing is a skill that takes years to develop. You can be making great beer pretty quickly - but to make truly excellent beer you need lots of practice. Kegging is a good place to start - but learn how to brew lagers first. Here's a good lager primer. Understand that if you don;t have ales firmly under your belt you should be cautious about starting onto lagers.




Quote
For lagers you definitely need a large yeast starter and you can't really ferment a lager warm and expect it to taste lagerish - it may very well be a good beer. But not a lager.

Pick up a gallon size juice jug. 2 vials in 3L/3quarts of a  1.040 OG starter wort would not be too much yeast for a 1.050 - 1.060 beer. You need at least a gallon starter with 1 vial. Pitch the yeast and ferment to completion. Cold crash in fridge for a a day or two to drop the yeast.

On brew day, cool your main volume of wort all the way down to about 44-48 degrees - even if it takes several hours (or over night) to cool. Then aerate well (about 2xs as long as you aerate for ales - with pure o2 I go about 3 minutes).  DECANT the spent starter beer from your starter and only pitch the slurry.

Try to keep fermentation temps around 48-50 degrees letting it warm up some near the end to assure complete attenuation. Give yourself at lest 2-3 (even 4-5) weeks fermentation time. Then transfer to secondary and lager at near freezing temps for 2-4+ weeks.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Old Style Bavarian Lager
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2010, 12:41:57 PM »


+1 to putting the cart inf ront of the horse. Brewing is a skill that takes years to develop. You can be making great beer pretty quickly - but to make truly excellent beer you need lots of practice. Kegging is a good place to start - but learn how to brew lagers first. Here's a good lager primer. Understand that if you don;t have ales firmly under your belt you should be cautious about starting onto lagers.



+1

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Offline rail

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Re: Old Style Bavarian Lager
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2010, 07:32:44 AM »
Thanks for all the advice, it is very helpful. I would try an Ale, I enjoy them but they do not like me. I suffer from severe migraine headaches and have to watch my food intake. After several years of reintroducing foods and beverages into my diet, Lagers will not cause the migraine like Ales and some Stouts.

I enjoy some Stouts and Lambics without cause of a migraine, wheat beers are a head buster for me. I fast with the seasons and use Lagers, Bock and Dunkel for the protein in my diet.

I have a lot to learn about brewing and a lot of questions, I just appreciate everyones help.

Charles