Author Topic: Kettle souring with partial boil  (Read 2091 times)

Offline jc24

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Kettle souring with partial boil
« on: October 21, 2017, 12:10:16 PM »
Hi all, bit of a long post to follow, but I'd appreciate any help you are able to give. I've never brewed a sour beer before and have a few questions, and also wanted to run my recipe and process past you guys to see if you can pick up any no-no's before I make my first attempt. I'm going for a very easy drinking cherry sour ale that will be nice and refreshing, getting ready to go into the Aussie summer.

  • I plan on using Wyeast 3763 Roeselare to sour my 10L 'wort A' before the boil - will there be any benefit to using a mixed blend like that in such a short time, or would I be better off using a single lactobacillus strain? I'm guessing all of the potential flavours in the Wyeast concoction would take many months to develop, so maybe no point in using it?
  • If I do go with the 3763, should I be leaving it to sour at 40°C (104°F)? Wyeast say it's temperature range is 65 - 85°F, but I'm guessing that's for the yeast strains in there, but as I'm not looking to use it for the yeast, I'll be better going with 104°F?
  • I plan on aiming for a pH of around 3.1 in my 10L wort A before the boil, so that when it's diluted to the full 22L, I should end up with a pH of around 3.5. Does that sound right?
  • I plan on just doing a 20min boil as I can't see the point of doing a longer one - am I missing something? I'm not wanting any hop flavour or aroma that will get in the way of the cherry.

Proposed recipe
OG: 1.036
FG: 1.006
IBU: 6
ABV: 3.9%
Volume into fermenter: 22L (6G)

38% Pale Ale malt
30% Wheat malt
21% Extra Light DME
6% Crystal 40L
6% Dextrose
10g Magnum

Wyeast 3763 Roeselare
US-05

500mL (1.5lb) tart cherry juice after primary

Process
I plan to do my partial mash with the pale ale malt, wheat malt and crystal, top up to 11L (3 gallons), boil for 15mins to sanitise, cool to 104°F, add lactic acid to bring the pH down to 4.5, add the Wyeast 3763, cover and leave for a couple of days at 104 in an incubator, checking pH every 10 hours. When the pH reaches 3.1, add the DME and dextrose, bring to the boil, add hops and boil for 20mins. Business as usual from there, until the beer is a couple of points off FG, then I'll add the cherry juice, and carry on as usual.

Thoughts, comments and advice welcome!

Offline chezteth

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Re: Kettle souring with partial boil
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2017, 01:03:54 PM »
Hi all, bit of a long post to follow, but I'd appreciate any help you are able to give. I've never brewed a sour beer before and have a few questions, and also wanted to run my recipe and process past you guys to see if you can pick up any no-no's before I make my first attempt. I'm going for a very easy drinking cherry sour ale that will be nice and refreshing, getting ready to go into the Aussie summer.

  • I plan on using Wyeast 3763 Roeselare to sour my 10L 'wort A' before the boil - will there be any benefit to using a mixed blend like that in such a short time, or would I be better off using a single lactobacillus strain? I'm guessing all of the potential flavours in the Wyeast concoction would take many months to develop, so maybe no point in using it?
  • If I do go with the 3763, should I be leaving it to sour at 40°C (104°F)? Wyeast say it's temperature range is 65 - 85°F, but I'm guessing that's for the yeast strains in there, but as I'm not looking to use it for the yeast, I'll be better going with 104°F?
  • I plan on aiming for a pH of around 3.1 in my 10L wort A before the boil, so that when it's diluted to the full 22L, I should end up with a pH of around 3.5. Does that sound right?
  • I plan on just doing a 20min boil as I can't see the point of doing a longer one - am I missing something? I'm not wanting any hop flavour or aroma that will get in the way of the cherry.

Proposed recipe
OG: 1.036
FG: 1.006
IBU: 6
ABV: 3.9%
Volume into fermenter: 22L (6G)

38% Pale Ale malt
30% Wheat malt
21% Extra Light DME
6% Crystal 40L
6% Dextrose
10g Magnum

Wyeast 3763 Roeselare
US-05

500mL (1.5lb) tart cherry juice after primary

Process
I plan to do my partial mash with the pale ale malt, wheat malt and crystal, top up to 11L (3 gallons), boil for 15mins to sanitise, cool to 104°F, add lactic acid to bring the pH down to 4.5, add the Wyeast 3763, cover and leave for a couple of days at 104 in an incubator, checking pH every 10 hours. When the pH reaches 3.1, add the DME and dextrose, bring to the boil, add hops and boil for 20mins. Business as usual from there, until the beer is a couple of points off FG, then I'll add the cherry juice, and carry on as usual.

Thoughts, comments and advice welcome!

In my experience the Wyeast Roselare Blend takes a long time to sour. For a quick sour wort I would suggest using lactobacillus. If you use the Roselare blend I'm not sure the effect of keeping the temp at 40C will have.

My wife & I have made a sour wort using lacto and allowed it to get down to 3.5pH. I'm not sure how the math would work out for souring 11L then diluting with more wort. I'm sure someone on the forum knows how to do the calculation. Or, you could try googling it. The 3.5pH was reasonably sour without being overpowering.

Doing a short (20min) boil is fine before souring as it will kill off any other potential contaminants. If you really want you could skip the hops. The last sour we made we didn't use any hops and it turned out very well. It depends on what you are going for. If you are going to boil after souring and use hops I believe the Magnum hops will be a good, neutral choice.

What is the purpose for adding the dextrose into the boil? In my opinion I would skip adding the dextrose. I believe it would dry out the beer too much. The sourness along with the cherry juice will affect the body of the beer. I will admit that I haven't used dextrose in a sour beer.

The 500mL of tart cherry juice will probably be very strong. You may want to add part of it then taste it. Again, if that is what you are going for then it's all good.

Other than that I think your recipe looks good.

Brew on!
Brandon

Offline jc24

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Re: Kettle souring with partial boil
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2017, 01:50:15 PM »
Thanks for the reply. I’ll try using just lactobacillus as you suggest.

The 20min boil time I was referring to was after souring.

Yeah I was thinking of leaving out the dextrose - just thought I’d put a bit in to make sure the FG was nice and low but probably unnecessary.

And thanks for the tip with the cherry juice - I’ll start with 300ml and see how that goes.

Thanks again!


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Offline Scallixu

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Re: Kettle souring with partial boil
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2018, 07:27:05 AM »
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