Author Topic: Strong ale grain bill  (Read 579 times)

Offline curtdogg

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 374
    • View Profile
Strong ale grain bill
« on: November 09, 2017, 10:08:50 PM »
71.0% 2 Row
19.4% Munich 10
6.5% Rye
3.2% Crystal 120L

Thoughts on the grain bill for a strong ale?
Warrior hops
I have S04 or WLP 001

Or

Same grain bill minus the Crystal 120
Rye DIPA.
Mosaic and Citra.

???






Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


Offline goschman

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3327
    • View Profile
Re: Strong ale grain bill
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2017, 07:16:39 AM »
You may get advice to leave out the rye at that small of a percentage. I have heard that if you want the rye to really come through you need to use at least 15%.

You can still make strong ales pretty hoppy as long as it doesn't overpower the malt character and head into IPA range. The ones I like are like strong amber ales and are sufficiently hopped. If it were me, I would use more munich malt but I love munich malt.
On Tap/Bottled: Hazy IPA, BraunBier, Berry Belgian Cider, Pilsner, Doppelbraun                

Fermenting:
Up Next: Red Rye Ale, Black Lager

Offline curtdogg

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 374
    • View Profile
Re: Strong ale grain bill
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2017, 10:21:00 AM »
You may get advice to leave out the rye at that small of a percentage. I have heard that if you want the rye to really come through you need to use at least 15%.

You can still make strong ales pretty hoppy as long as it doesn't overpower the malt character and head into IPA range. The ones I like are like strong amber ales and are sufficiently hopped. If it were me, I would use more munich malt but I love munich malt.
Thanks for the advice, it's much appreciated.

I think im gonna go the DIPA route.
I have 2oz of Mosaic pellets and 8oz of whole cone Citra.
Im going to go all late additions, bitter to 50ibu with Warrior and use Tasty's hoppy water profile.

When would you add the whole leaf hops, 10min or Flame out?

What do you think about using the crystal 120 in that recipe? I only have 8oz.

Curtis

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


Offline Kevin

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Free from the Style Police!
    • View Profile
Re: Strong ale grain bill
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 10:27:27 AM »
Here is a recipe from Ron Patinson's blog. It's an Adnams Tally Ho from their 1953 records.
Most of Adnams Strong Ales had very simple grist's. Some earlier version were simply pale malt and sugar. The sugars listed in their brew logs were proprietary and no longer available so Ron has made an educated guess and suggested invert #3 as a substitute. Note that the "caramel" is not a fermentable or a malt... it is a coloring agent. Apparent attenuation is calculated at 79+% so your ABV may be higher if you use a more robust yeast strain.

mild malt    13.00 lb    75.76%
amber malt    1.25 lb    7.28%
crystal malt 80 L    1.25 lb    7.28%
no. 3 invert sugar    1.50 lb    8.74%
caramel    0.16 lb    0.93%

Fuggles 120 min    1.50 oz    
Fuggles 60 min    1.50 oz    
Goldings 30 min    1.50 oz    
Goldings dry hops    0.25 oz    

OG    1080    
FG    1016.1    
ABV    8.45    

IBU    47    
SRM    32    
Mash at    150º F    
“He was a wise man who invented beer.”
- Plato

Offline goschman

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3327
    • View Profile
Re: Strong ale grain bill
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2017, 10:45:54 AM »
You may get advice to leave out the rye at that small of a percentage. I have heard that if you want the rye to really come through you need to use at least 15%.

You can still make strong ales pretty hoppy as long as it doesn't overpower the malt character and head into IPA range. The ones I like are like strong amber ales and are sufficiently hopped. If it were me, I would use more munich malt but I love munich malt.
Thanks for the advice, it's much appreciated.

I think im gonna go the DIPA route.
I have 2oz of Mosaic pellets and 8oz of whole cone Citra.
Im going to go all late additions, bitter to 50ibu with Warrior and use Tasty's hoppy water profile.

When would you add the whole leaf hops, 10min or Flame out?

What do you think about using the crystal 120 in that recipe? I only have 8oz.

Curtis

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Personally I wouldn't use any crystal malt in a DIPA and in fact I would be adding sugar to dry it out a bit.

As far as hops, I would go with a big bittering charge and add half of your late hops at flameout and the other half dry. If you only have 10 oz of hops, I would go for something closer to an IPA unless you are doing a smaller batch size. For a good DIPA, you need a ton of hops so I rarely brew that style so take my advice with a grain of salt. Just my approach...
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 10:53:48 AM by goschman »
On Tap/Bottled: Hazy IPA, BraunBier, Berry Belgian Cider, Pilsner, Doppelbraun                

Fermenting:
Up Next: Red Rye Ale, Black Lager

Offline curtdogg

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 374
    • View Profile
Re: Strong ale grain bill
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2017, 11:01:31 AM »
You may get advice to leave out the rye at that small of a percentage. I have heard that if you want the rye to really come through you need to use at least 15%.

You can still make strong ales pretty hoppy as long as it doesn't overpower the malt character and head into IPA range. The ones I like are like strong amber ales and are sufficiently hopped. If it were me, I would use more munich malt but I love munich malt.
Thanks for the advice, it's much appreciated.

I think im gonna go the DIPA route.
I have 2oz of Mosaic pellets and 8oz of whole cone Citra.
Im going to go all late additions, bitter to 50ibu with Warrior and use Tasty's hoppy water profile.

When would you add the whole leaf hops, 10min or Flame out?

What do you think about using the crystal 120 in that recipe? I only have 8oz.

Curtis

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Personally I wouldn't use any crystal malt in a DIPA and in fact I would be adding sugar to dry it out a bit.

As far as hops, I would go with a big bittering charge and add half of your late hops at flameout and the other half dry. If you only have 10 oz of hops, I would go for something closer to an IPA unless you are doing a smaller batch size. For a good DIPA, you need a ton of hops so I rarely brew that style so take my advice with a grain of salt. Just my approach...
Makes sense.
I have another 2oz of Caliente  (never used them).
 
So maybe an IPA Mosaic, Citra, 2 row and Munich.
Then re-mash add some crystal 120, rye and Caliente. See if I can make a small batch Rye pale ale.

Just turned into a double brew day!

Thanks for everyones input.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


Online denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 18649
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Strong ale grain bill
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2017, 11:08:30 AM »
Personally I wouldn't use any crystal malt in a DIPA and in fact I would be adding sugar to dry it out a bit.


I do both.  Crystal for flavor, but balance with sugar for fermentability.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline curtdogg

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 374
    • View Profile
Re: Strong ale grain bill
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2017, 11:15:04 AM »
Personally I wouldn't use any crystal malt in a DIPA and in fact I would be adding sugar to dry it out a bit.


I do both.  Crystal for flavor, but balance with sugar for fermentability.
That was my intention (1lb of dextrose, 8oz of C120), but he made a good point about not having alot of hops.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 11:22:06 AM by curtdogg »

Offline goschman

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3327
    • View Profile
Re: Strong ale grain bill
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2017, 11:39:53 AM »
Personally I wouldn't use any crystal malt in a DIPA and in fact I would be adding sugar to dry it out a bit.


I do both.  Crystal for flavor, but balance with sugar for fermentability.

Makes sense. I do 70/30 pilsner/munich with sugar. I just don't use crystal malt very much...
On Tap/Bottled: Hazy IPA, BraunBier, Berry Belgian Cider, Pilsner, Doppelbraun                

Fermenting:
Up Next: Red Rye Ale, Black Lager

Offline curtdogg

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 374
    • View Profile
Re: Strong ale grain bill
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2017, 12:02:12 PM »
Personally I wouldn't use any crystal malt in a DIPA and in fact I would be adding sugar to dry it out a bit.


I do both.  Crystal for flavor, but balance with sugar for fermentability.

Makes sense. I do 70/30 pilsner/munich with sugar. I just don't use crystal malt very much...
I have yet to use pilsner malt in any American style Ales. One of these days I'll give it a shot.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


Offline Joe Sr.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4263
  • Chicago - NORTH SIDE
    • View Profile
Re: Strong ale grain bill
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2017, 12:29:46 PM »
Personally I wouldn't use any crystal malt in a DIPA and in fact I would be adding sugar to dry it out a bit.


I do both.  Crystal for flavor, but balance with sugar for fermentability.

You can also do a long(er) boil and leave out the crystal.  I've yet to hit the flavors I'm targeting for with this, but I've had beers brewed by others where a long boil has brought out awesome carmel flavors.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Online denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 18649
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Strong ale grain bill
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2017, 01:37:43 PM »
Personally I wouldn't use any crystal malt in a DIPA and in fact I would be adding sugar to dry it out a bit.


I do both.  Crystal for flavor, but balance with sugar for fermentability.

You can also do a long(er) boil and leave out the crystal.  I've yet to hit the flavors I'm targeting for with this, but I've had beers brewed by others where a long boil has brought out awesome carmel flavors.

IMO, melanoidins from the kettle have a different flavor than using crystal
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Joe Sr.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4263
  • Chicago - NORTH SIDE
    • View Profile
Re: Strong ale grain bill
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2017, 02:17:57 PM »
IMO, melanoidins from the kettle have a different flavor than using crystal

Maybe I need to do both.  Add crystal and boil longer.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton