Author Topic: Invert sugar and honey  (Read 1535 times)

Offline scrap iron

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Invert sugar and honey
« on: October 31, 2017, 07:41:22 PM »
I have been thinking of brewing a Belgian Dubbel, first attempt, and was studying recipes for inverted sugar. In my search I found this statement,

Honey is a complex mix of sugars but it is mainly glucose (roughly 30%, by weight) and fructose (40%) in invert form; the bees supply the invertase, which is the enzyme that inverts the fructose. Honey's make-up is not consistent - it varies by source, season, region, and producer. It is about 75% fermentable sugar; the remainder is water, proteins, some minerals, etc.    This is in  brewery lane.com.   I was curious if I could heat a honey and water mix to darken it a little and use bit more in a recipe. What are your thoughts or experiences fellow brewers?  trick or treat!                   
Mike F.                                                                               "I am what I am and that's all that I am" Popeye the sailor

Offline denny

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Re: Invert sugar and honey
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2017, 08:00:54 PM »
I have been thinking of brewing a Belgian Dubbel, first attempt, and was studying recipes for inverted sugar. In my search I found this statement,

Honey is a complex mix of sugars but it is mainly glucose (roughly 30%, by weight) and fructose (40%) in invert form; the bees supply the invertase, which is the enzyme that inverts the fructose. Honey's make-up is not consistent - it varies by source, season, region, and producer. It is about 75% fermentable sugar; the remainder is water, proteins, some minerals, etc.    This is in  brewery lane.com.   I was curious if I could heat a honey and water mix to darken it a little and use bit more in a recipe. What are your thoughts or experiences fellow brewers?  trick or treat!                   


Yes, you can do that.  I have a tripel recipe that uses caramelized honey and peppercorns.  You can make a great beer that way, but to really nail a dubbel you'll need candi syrup, not invert sugar or honey.
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Offline scrap iron

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Re: Invert sugar and honey
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2017, 08:16:20 PM »
Thanks Denny, as always sage advise. I'll add candi syrup to the recipe and the honey idea to the Triple I had in the line-up next. Then on to a Quad.
Mike F.                                                                               "I am what I am and that's all that I am" Popeye the sailor

Offline denny

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Re: Invert sugar and honey
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2017, 08:56:34 PM »
Thanks Denny, as always sage advise. I'll add candi syrup to the recipe and the honey idea to the Triple I had in the line-up next. Then on to a Quad.

If you have Experimental Homebrewing, check out the caramelized honey tripel recipe.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Invert sugar and honey
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2017, 01:35:36 PM »
OCD alert!

That write up is not correct. Invertase breaks the disaccharide bond in sucrose, and the sucrose is “inverted” to the two sugar molecules glucose and fructose. The fructose is one of the products of inversion, as is the glucose.

If you make invert sugar at home on your stove, the heat is doing the inversion by breaking the bond.
Jeff Rankert
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AHA Governing Committee
BJCP National
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline scrap iron

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Re: Invert sugar and honey
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2017, 05:24:55 PM »
OCD alert!

That write up is not correct. Invertase breaks the disaccharide bond in sucrose, and the sucrose is “inverted” to the two sugar molecules glucose and fructose. The fructose is one of the products of inversion, as is the glucose.

If you make invert sugar at home on your stove, the heat is doing the inversion by breaking the bond.
         Interesting, I went to a bee info site and found this----- ---In the honey stomach, the nectar is mixed with what is known as the bee enzyme called invertase, and it is this which starts to transform the raw nectar’s sucrose (a disaccharide – two sugars) into dextrose (glucose) and levulose (fructose) which are monossacharides (basic sugars). These sugars form the bulk of what is ‘honey’, although , there are also many minor complex sugars such as maltose and trisaccharides such as erlose.---- I was unaware that honey was inverted sugar. Thanks for the correction, this is all new to me.   The article about the bee enzyme is here---https://www.buzzaboutbees.net/bee-enzyme.html
Mike F.                                                                               "I am what I am and that's all that I am" Popeye the sailor

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Invert sugar and honey
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2017, 12:53:38 AM »
OCD alert!

That write up is not correct. Invertase breaks the disaccharide bond in sucrose, and the sucrose is “inverted” to the two sugar molecules glucose and fructose. The fructose is one of the products of inversion, as is the glucose.

If you make invert sugar at home on your stove, the heat is doing the inversion by breaking the bond.
         Interesting, I went to a bee info site and found this----- ---In the honey stomach, the nectar is mixed with what is known as the bee enzyme called invertase, and it is this which starts to transform the raw nectar’s sucrose (a disaccharide – two sugars) into dextrose (glucose) and levulose (fructose) which are monossacharides (basic sugars). These sugars form the bulk of what is ‘honey’, although , there are also many minor complex sugars such as maltose and trisaccharides such as erlose.---- I was unaware that honey was inverted sugar. Thanks for the correction, this is all new to me.   The article about the bee enzyme is here---https://www.buzzaboutbees.net/bee-enzyme.html

Brewers yeast also has invertase to break down sucrose. Some say it gives beer a certain flavor some say not.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
AHA Governing Committee
BJCP National
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!