Author Topic: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs  (Read 1814 times)

Offline Stevie

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Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« on: November 22, 2017, 12:22:29 AM »
Wonder how this will go. I’d put my faith in Whitelabs considering contamination sources are high in production breweries, but they have credibility issues after the Sacc Trois and reported Sacc contamination’s in their Brett. That strain is a nightmare strain as it can covert starch on its own. If it did come from Whitelabs, they may have a big issue.

https://www.brewbound.com/news/left-hand-files-lawsuit-white-labs-contaminated-yeast

Offline el_capitan

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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2017, 12:28:58 AM »
Interesting, Stevis.  I've never heard of that particular strain of yeast.  It seems like White Labs would be on top of their production, but there's not enough info in that article to really make a judgment call.  It will be interesting to see how this shakes down. 

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2017, 12:50:41 AM »
Wow, hadn't heard. I'm curious to see how this plays out. I agree the Sacc Trois fiasco comes to mind. But though Left Hand hasn't had any more issues since switching yeast vendors, who's to say that wasn't from a likely thorough sanitizing of the brewery? Seems a tough one to prove. OTOH I'm not an expert on diastaticus either.
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Offline Stevie

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« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 01:15:03 AM by Stevie »

Offline ethinson

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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2017, 02:35:48 PM »
We just started testing for diastaticus... it is nasty stuff... but it's also considered a "saccharomyces wild yeast".  It comes from the air and the environment, I don't think anyone cultures it (to my knowledge, I'm sure I'm wrong). 

I wouldn't doubt that it may have come from White Labs, but I think they are going to have a really, really hard time proving it...
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2017, 02:47:11 PM »
We just started testing for diastaticus... it is nasty stuff... but it's also considered a "saccharomyces wild yeast".  It comes from the air and the environment, I don't think anyone cultures it (to my knowledge, I'm sure I'm wrong). 

I wouldn't doubt that it may have come from White Labs, but I think they are going to have a really, really hard time proving it...

From what I've read elsewhere they identified the unwelcomed guest in unused pitches from white labs that matched what was found in beers after the fact.
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Offline Phil_M

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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2017, 03:23:59 PM »
Doesn't really play into the lawsuit at all, but I'm surprised that a brewery of Left Hand's size isn't managing their own yeast...
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Offline Stevie

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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2017, 03:31:32 PM »
Doesn't really play into the lawsuit at all, but I'm surprised that a brewery of Left Hand's size isn't managing their own yeast...
I’m not, but they should have a QC person/microbiologist checking every point in the prices.

Offline denny

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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2017, 03:50:35 PM »
FWIW, this is not the first time the finger has been pointed at White Labs for this.
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Online hopfenundmalz

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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2017, 05:03:13 PM »
The last two days have been educational. Many web searches later, I have more understanding of this yeast strain. Some say 3711 is of this type, maybe most Saison yeasts. Have you ever asked yourself how does ir reach those crazy low finishing gravitates? These yeasts look like normal brewers yeast under the microscope. They can be detected through DNA tests. They grow slowly at normal beer temps. If the beer is warm, on the shelf, they grow faster. They have a Belgian phenolic character. Those last two are Saison like characters. The yeast excrete an enzyme that breaks the starch down to sugars externally, then the sugars are absorbed by the yeast.

It turns out Bell’s did a MBAA presentation a while back,mas they had an issue. The presentation is in the BA members area.  They were said to have clued in Goose Island to their problem with BCS, when I was on a brewery tour.

If you want to fall down a rabbit hole, search on “Bell’s Diastaticus”

Hey, Belle Saison is one of these critters. Some say it is dry 3711.
http://www.lallemandbrewing.com/product-details/belle-saison-beer-yeast/

ProBrewer
http://discussions.probrewer.com/showthread.php?69995-Refermentation-in-Packaged-beer-due-to-Diastaticus
Reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheBrewery/comments/5cx15c/qc_folks_any_experience_testing_for_s_diastaticus/






« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 06:05:37 PM by hopfenundmalz »
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Offline Stevie

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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2017, 05:11:46 PM »
The craziness we will learn with all the new DNA testing.

Online hopfenundmalz

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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2017, 06:04:36 PM »
The craziness we will learn with all the new DNA testing.
Agreed.

Edit. - Mark also said that Iodophors or beach are broad spectrum, and will kill yeast and Brett. Heat is another strategy for materials that can endure it.

If you use Brett or Saison yeasts, it would be prudent to give a sanitizing cycle with something besides Star San.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 06:09:06 PM by hopfenundmalz »
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Offline Wilbur

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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2017, 06:08:32 PM »
Kind of tough to claim lost market share when many established breweries are losing market share to newer craft breweries. If be interested to hear of there were any factors that lead to it affecting so many batches, but we probably won't get that part of the story. Hopefully they reach a settlement that works well for both companies.

Offline Stevie

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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2017, 06:38:46 PM »
The craziness we will learn with all the new DNA testing.
Agreed.

Edit. - Mark also said that Iodophors or beach are broad spectrum, and will kill yeast and Brett. Heat is another strategy for materials that can endure it.

If you use Brett or Saison yeasts, it would be prudent to give a sanitizing cycle with something besides Star San.
No doubt. I’ve been using iodophor for fermenters, kegs and any yeast handling, but not racking equipment.

Offline a10t2

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Re: Left Hand Suing Whitelabs
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2017, 11:01:39 PM »
If you use Brett or Saison yeasts, it would be prudent to give a sanitizing cycle with something besides Star San.

IME, a solely acid-based sanitizer can't be relied on to give brewery-level sanitation (let's say 4σ) even for Saccharomyces spp.
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