Author Topic: Anyone think Vienna Malt tastes slightly sweet like cherry?  (Read 1600 times)

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone think Vienna Malt tastes slightly sweet like cherry?
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2017, 09:29:32 PM »
In red X I get a dark cherry flavor. So bing?

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone think Vienna Malt tastes slightly sweet like cherry?
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2017, 10:26:57 PM »
In red X I get a dark cherry flavor. So bing?

Same here - dark cherry. I also agree with liking it in some malty beers, not so much in a drier or hoppy beer.

Edit - As to the OP, sounds like some yeast derived ester as being likely.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 10:29:49 PM by HoosierBrew »
Jon H.

Offline BrewBama

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1486
    • View Profile
Anyone think Vienna Malt tastes slightly sweet like cherry?
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2017, 10:41:33 PM »
I have definitely detected cherry in German lagers before like marzen which often use Munich and Vienna malts, or personally I would describe it more as almond, which makes sense since both cherries and almonds are closely related stone fruits -- an almond is really the seed from inside a peach pit.  While I think the cherry/almond character is inconsistent and not always present every time these malts are used, it is certainly a possible attribute on occasion.  I enjoy this character when present and hope you do too.  Very perceptive, well done.

Cheers.

Though I agree almonds are closely related to peaches, they are not the seed from inside a peach pit. They are a distinctly different drupe grown from a distinctly different tree. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almond 

Cheers!



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Huntsville AL

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8870
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone think Vienna Malt tastes slightly sweet like cherry?
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2017, 12:45:08 AM »
In red X I get a dark cherry flavor. So bing?

I will be on the lookout for that, now that it is narrowed down.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
AHA Governing Committee
BJCP National
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline dmtaylor

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3249
  • Two Rivers, WI
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone think Vienna Malt tastes slightly sweet like cherry?
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2017, 12:51:16 AM »
Though I agree almonds are closely related to peaches, they are not the seed from inside a peach pit. They are a distinctly different drupe grown from a distinctly different tree. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almond 

Peach and almond are very closely related.  I haven't eaten almond fruit before, but I'm willing to guess that it resembles a small peach.  Maybe more dry or not as sweet or something.  Pretty dang close.  One was selected for the quality of its fuzzy fruit, and the other for the quality of its inner nut.  I could be wrong but that's the impression I get.

Cherry on the other hand is a more distant cousin.  We wouldn't dream of cracking a cherry pit open and eating whatever is inside it.
Dave

The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.

Offline blatz

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3427
  • Paul Blatz - Jupiter, FL
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone think Vienna Malt tastes slightly sweet like cherry?
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2017, 05:16:31 PM »
Cherry in german lagers is dark Munich. 

that has always been my take.
The happiest people don’t necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have.

BJCP National: F0281

Offline goschman

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3448
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone think Vienna Malt tastes slightly sweet like cherry?
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2017, 05:50:41 PM »
Cherry in german lagers is dark Munich. 

that has always been my take.

What color rating of Munich? Isn't "dark" is dependent on maltster?
On Tap/Bottled: Haze for Daze IPA, G Pils, Maibock, Kolsch       

Fermenting: Summer Ale
Up Next: Euro Pale, IPA

Offline blatz

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3427
  • Paul Blatz - Jupiter, FL
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone think Vienna Malt tastes slightly sweet like cherry?
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2017, 05:53:06 PM »
Cherry in german lagers is dark Munich. 

that has always been my take.

What color rating of Munich? Isn't "dark" is dependent on maltster?

most german maltsters' dark or II munich is in the 8-10L range.  I predominantly use Weyermann's which is in that range. 

Some American maltsters dark is much higher L and is more like a specialty grain rather than a base malt.  I wouldn't use a high % of any of those.
The happiest people don’t necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have.

BJCP National: F0281

Offline goschman

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3448
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone think Vienna Malt tastes slightly sweet like cherry?
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2017, 06:18:30 PM »
Cherry in german lagers is dark Munich. 

that has always been my take.

What color rating of Munich? Isn't "dark" is dependent on maltster?

most german maltsters' dark or II munich is in the 8-10L range.  I predominantly use Weyermann's which is in that range. 

Some American maltsters dark is much higher L and is more like a specialty grain rather than a base malt.  I wouldn't use a high % of any of those.

Okay thanks. I use Weyermann as well so just wanted to confirm that my dark was the same as your dark...
On Tap/Bottled: Haze for Daze IPA, G Pils, Maibock, Kolsch       

Fermenting: Summer Ale
Up Next: Euro Pale, IPA

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8870
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone think Vienna Malt tastes slightly sweet like cherry?
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2017, 06:21:28 PM »
Cherry in german lagers is dark Munich. 

that has always been my take.

What color rating of Munich? Isn't "dark" is dependent on maltster?

most german maltsters' dark or II munich is in the 8-10L range.  I predominantly use Weyermann's which is in that range. 

Some American maltsters dark is much higher L and is more like a specialty grain rather than a base malt.  I wouldn't use a high % of any of those.

Durst and Avangard have Dark Munich at 40 EBC which is 14.7 Lovibond.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
AHA Governing Committee
BJCP National
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline erockrph

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6193
  • Chepachet, RI
    • View Profile
    • The Hop WHisperer
Re: Anyone think Vienna Malt tastes slightly sweet like cherry?
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2017, 03:49:56 PM »
So I have to ask, what type of cherries? Maraschino, Bing, Rainer, Balaton, Montmorency? Or just generic cherry.
For me, it's even less specific. It's kind of a generic stonefruit that's in between Amaretto and Bing cherry. It leans towards the darker cherry/almond side of stonefruit rather than the brighter peach/plum/nectarine side to me.

Cherry in german lagers is dark Munich. 

that has always been my take.

What color rating of Munich? Isn't "dark" is dependent on maltster?

most german maltsters' dark or II munich is in the 8-10L range.  I predominantly use Weyermann's which is in that range. 

Some American maltsters dark is much higher L and is more like a specialty grain rather than a base malt.  I wouldn't use a high % of any of those.

Durst and Avangard have Dark Munich at 40 EBC which is 14.7 Lovibond.

For comparison, Dingeman's Aromatic is listed at 19L IIRC, so you're getting way up there with some of those really dark Munich malts.

FWIW, I get this character the strongest with Aromatic malt, but I've also gotten it pretty strongly in the past in dunkels and doppelbocks I've brewed with a large amount of Dark Munich. I wasn't really checking the L/EBC really closely of my Munich's back then, but I'm wondering now whether I was using an exceptionally dark one.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline BitterItDown

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone think Vienna Malt tastes slightly sweet like cherry?
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2017, 04:02:32 PM »
I'm oxidizing as we speak, my girlfriend thinks I smell like cherry.  The way I see it, I've got about 40 more years before this oxidation catches up with me and I wind up 6 feet under. ;)

IMO fresh malt generally does not give hints of fruit - more nutty, bready, crackery, honey, but perhaps darker kilned malt would - though I have no doubt that these notes can come from oxidation when the sugars and melanoidins are in an ethanol solution (i.e. beer).

Offline Phil_M

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1693
  • Southern Maryland
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone think Vienna Malt tastes slightly sweet like cherry?
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2017, 01:09:53 AM »
FWIW, the most disgusting beer I've ever had was an Ayinger Doppelbock that was very old and ill-handled.

Tasted like cough medicine cherry grossness. One of the few beers I've dumped.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline klickitat jim

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8469
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone think Vienna Malt tastes slightly sweet like cherry?
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2018, 05:45:12 PM »
I wonder if it could also be certain people sensitive to ethyl benzoate. Probably benzoic acid is present in Vienna and Munich malts and it's being esterized.