Author Topic: Bier de Garde  (Read 1331 times)

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 9685
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Bier de Garde
« on: November 30, 2017, 12:19:18 PM »
I haven't brewed one of these in a long while but I did a 10 gallon Bier de Marz based on an old recipe yesterday. was a fun brew. I split the batch between Kolsch and German ale yeast based on what I remembered from Framhouse Ales (that Bier de Garde is brewed with an Ale yeast at cooler temps or a lager at slightly warmer temps).

Today I started researching a recipe for another Bier de Garde and was surprised to see lots of recipes (if not almost all of them) suggesting to use a more Belgian driven strain. I see that Wyeast now has a Bier de Garde strain that is definitely Belgian flavor forward.

The BJCP guide says "The malt flavor lasts into the finish but the finish is medium-dry to dry, never cloying. Alcohol can provide some additional dryness in the finish. Low to no hop flavor, although paler versions can have slightly higher levels of herbal or spicy hop flavor (which can also come from the yeast). Smooth, well-lagered character. No diacetyl." And this lends me to think more neutral yeast flavors.

I do realize there can be a broad spectrum with any Belgian/French "style" but I was wondering if my information is simply outdated or what is the deal?


Offline reverseapachemaster

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3208
    • View Profile
    • Brain Sparging on Brewing
Re: Bier de Garde
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2017, 03:27:35 PM »
There's not a one right answer. Many of the French staples (e.g. Jenlain) are definitely not using yeast with a trappist/abbey/saison character. OTOH Thiriez makes beer somewhere near the biere de garde style/range of styles but Thiriez is reportedly the origin of 3711.

I think you find many recipes using Belgian strains because the name is French. People here expect to taste Belgian yeast. Read through some reviews of biere de gardes on the ratings sites and you'll see that a lot of people are clueless to the style. Complaining it's too malty, not hoppy enough, too thick, not enough yeast flavor. Literally complaining what the beer should be.

A little ester character is ok for biere de garde IMO but the real goal from the yeast should be to leave behind a lot of malt flavor. Personally I would opt for a malt forward ale or lager strain.
Heck yeah I blog about homebrewing: Brain Sparging on Brewing

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 9685
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Bier de Garde
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2017, 07:40:41 PM »

A little ester character is ok for biere de garde IMO but the real goal from the yeast should be to leave behind a lot of malt flavor. Personally I would opt for a malt forward ale or lager strain.

Thanks that's exactly what I was thinking.

Offline mabrungard

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2492
  • Water matters!
    • View Profile
    • Bru'n Water
Re: Bier de Garde
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2017, 09:22:56 PM »
PS: My wife likes this style and has stated that from now on, our last name is pronounced "Bier de Garde" instead of whatever bastardization its usually pronounced as!
Martin B
Carmel, IN

BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/Brun-Water-464551136933908/?ref=bookmarks

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 9685
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Bier de Garde
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2017, 11:00:17 PM »
Haha! Martin Bier de Garde..... like that ring

Offline chumley

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 980
    • View Profile
Re: Bier de Garde
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2017, 05:48:10 PM »
I recollect back in the day of the old Homebrew Digest, a long running discussion that biere de garde yeast should give an earthy, musty flavor to the beer. Eventually it was concluded that no, biere de garde should not be earthy and musty, its just that the bottles that are shipped overseas are usually corked.

Personally, I don't see much difference in a biere de garde and an amber bock.

Offline snowtiger87

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 443
    • View Profile
Re: Bier de Garde
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2017, 08:57:32 PM »
I like to use Alt yeast and use an Alt fermentation schedule. I tried the French Ale yeast and was not happy with it. Had a strong "wine-like" flavor.
Brewing since 1989 - BJCP National Rank
Member of KROC and Foam on the Range

Fermenting: Double IPA
Conditioning: Saison du Potiron
On tap: Cider, Cream Ale, Bock, Rye Dunkel Doppelbock, Celebration Clone, Imperial Stout

Offline Frankenbrew

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
  • South Shore Brew Club, SE Massachusetts
    • View Profile
Re: Bier de Garde
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2017, 11:05:55 PM »
I like to use Alt yeast and use an Alt fermentation schedule. I tried the French Ale yeast and was not happy with it. Had a strong "wine-like" flavor.

+1

I make many bieres de garde, my favorite for right now. I like the French ale yeast though I agree there is a bit of wineyness to it. But any clean fermenting yeast that retains the maltiness which is the cornerstone of the style will work. Alt yeast is probably the best non-biere de garde yeast. I've used Safale K-97 which is an alt strain with a touch of spice that really works well in the style. Remember: it's all about the malt!
Frank C.

And thereof comes the proverb: 'Blessing of your
heart, you brew good ale.'

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Bier de Garde
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2017, 11:49:11 PM »
PS: My wife likes this style and has stated that from now on, our last name is pronounced "Bier de Garde" instead of whatever bastardization its usually pronounced as!

Haha! Martin Bier de Garde..... like that ring




Yeah, funny stuff. Would give the software a cool, European flair -  "Bier de Garde'nWater.  Supporter's version in Euros only."   ;D
Jon H.

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 9685
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Bier de Garde
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2017, 04:07:53 PM »
I ended up brewing 10 gallons of Bier de Mars and 10 gallons of Bier de Garde. Bier de Mars was 1.070 and Bier de Garde was 1.060 (the former more amber the latter mroe pale). I split the Bier de Mars between WY Kolsch and WY Alt and the Bier de Mars split between Omega Alt Yeast and Saflager 34/70. All Pitched and fermenting at 58.

Offline Frankenbrew

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
  • South Shore Brew Club, SE Massachusetts
    • View Profile
Re: Bier de Garde
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2017, 05:19:18 PM »
Majorvices,

Please let us Francophiles know how these beers turn out. Thanks.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 05:21:02 PM by Frankenbrew »
Frank C.

And thereof comes the proverb: 'Blessing of your
heart, you brew good ale.'

Offline tommymorris

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2101
  • Tommy M.
    • View Profile
Re: Bier de Garde
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2017, 07:25:52 PM »
I ended up brewing 10 gallons of Bier de Mars and 10 gallons of Bier de Garde. Bier de Mars was 1.070 and Bier de Garde was 1.060 (the former more amber the latter mroe pale). I split the Bier de Mars between WY Kolsch and WY Alt and the Bier de Mars split between Omega Alt Yeast and Saflager 34/70. All Pitched and fermenting at 58.
Will these be served at YH?

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 9685
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Bier de Garde
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2017, 02:12:22 PM »
I ended up brewing 10 gallons of Bier de Mars and 10 gallons of Bier de Garde. Bier de Mars was 1.070 and Bier de Garde was 1.060 (the former more amber the latter mroe pale). I split the Bier de Mars between WY Kolsch and WY Alt and the Bier de Mars split between Omega Alt Yeast and Saflager 34/70. All Pitched and fermenting at 58.
Will these be served at YH?

Flight Club

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 9685
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Bier de Garde
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2017, 02:12:48 PM »
Majorvices,

Please let us Francophiles know how these beers turn out. Thanks.

I will!

Offline brewinhard

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3250
    • View Profile
Re: Bier de Garde
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2017, 09:42:20 PM »
Majorvices,

Please let us Francophiles know how these beers turn out. Thanks.

I will!

Yeah, definitely curious what you will think of those strains in this style...

I too have typically used WY 1007 for my amber/brown BDG's with fairly good success. I have yet to try a lager strain and probably will the next time I brew one. Maybe ferment the lager strain around 55-60F (probably towards the lower end) to keep the profile clean.