Author Topic: Critique 1st attempt at English Dark Mild  (Read 923 times)

Offline rbowers

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Critique 1st attempt at English Dark Mild
« on: November 26, 2017, 04:10:28 PM »
Haven't made this style before and using mild malt which will also be a first.  Just looking for any input or tips on ratios as well as planned mash temp considering low attenuating yeast.  Mainly struggling around a balance of mild malt (leaves more sweetness), % of crystal malts and other non-fermentables, a lower attenuating yeast (63-70%), and an ideal mash temp (150 vs 154 vs even higher).  Final goal is an easy drinking but highly flavorable session ale

6 Gal Batch

7lb Mild Malt (89%)
Pale Chocolate Malt 4oz (3.2%)
English Medium Crystal (60-70L) 4oz (3.2%)
Crystal 120 3.2 oz (2.5%)
Black Patent 2.5oz (2%)

EKG 0.85 oz (~19 IBU)
WLP 002

OG: ~1.037 @78% efficiency

Mash at 152 x 60 min, Mash out 168F
Pitch & Ferment 65F x 1 day then rise 1F daily up to 68 and hold until complete

Water Profile: Ca- 75, Mg-6, Na-9, Cl-44, SO4-63, HCO3-49

Read quite a few articles about other potential specialty malts including brown and amber malt but I have also not used those before.  Thoughts?

Offline Steve Ruch

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Re: Critique 1st attempt at English Dark Mild
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2017, 06:25:17 PM »
This works for me.
"Honorable Member" mild.
Mild ale malt (81%)
crystal wheat malt (10%)
flaked oatmeal (5%)
chocolate malt (4%)
EKG to 22 IBUs
WLP002, although the next time I brew it I am going to give the dry London esb yeast a go.
mash temperature: 154 for 45 minutes.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Critique 1st attempt at English Dark Mild
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2017, 09:41:02 PM »
Doesn't seem dark or complex enough.  So...

I would double the amounts on both crystal malts, add another ounce of pale chocolate, and cut the mild malt to 6.5 lb to compensate for these additions.

Mash temp and time look fine.  Could probably cut back to 45 minutes like Steve and I do.
Dave

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Offline Kevin

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Re: Critique 1st attempt at English Dark Mild
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2017, 07:20:47 PM »
When the discussion turns to English beers, especially "Milds", I always refer to Ron Pattinson who is the master archivist when it comes to all things English brewing.

Here is one of his graphs showing details from just one brewer... Lees. The part that may be of use is a decades worth of the percentages of the malts used.
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2010/08/lees-best-mild-1950-1963.html

Here is another comparing 4d and 5d (4 penny and 5 penny) beers in the 1920's. This is just after WW I and milds were just starting to be brewed dark. (All through the 1800's up to the beginning of WW I milds were pale in color.) You can see from one of the charts the SRM of some of them. (not all were recorded in the brew logs)
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2014/01/london-4d-and-5d-mild-ales-in-1920s.html

Next is an actual recipe from the early years of WW II (early for the USA anyway). It has an interestingly complex grain bill. Normally, English brewers kept things fairly simple. FYI, Invert No 3 is inverted sugar with an SRM of about 70.
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2011/03/lets-brew-wednesday-1942-barclay_17.html

Here is one more recipe, a Tetley's Mild from near the end of WW II. The SRM of 38 but the grist is far more simple. I'm guessing the 3 hour boil helped get the color since the darkest ingredient listed is Invert No 2 which isn't likely to get it done.
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2014/01/lets-brew-wednesday-1945-tetleys-mild.html

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Offline Phil_M

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Re: Critique 1st attempt at English Dark Mild
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2017, 07:36:02 PM »
I second the use of Pattinson's blog when developing a Mild recipe, far better than the BJCP for this style IMO.

I've brewed the Tetley's Mild that Kevin mentioned in the end of his post, less the caramel colorant. (From what I can tell, the colorant doesn't impact flavor.) Can highly recommend that recipe.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Critique 1st attempt at English Dark Mild
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2017, 09:23:37 PM »
When the discussion turns to English beers, especially "Milds", I always refer to Ron Pattinson who is the master archivist when it comes to all things English brewing.

Here is one of his graphs showing details from just one brewer... Lees. The part that may be of use is a decades worth of the percentages of the malts used.
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2010/08/lees-best-mild-1950-1963.html

Interesting!  They used lactose for body!  And brown malt.

I agree, Pattinson is THE expert on olde English styles, such as mild.
Dave

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Offline Kevin

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Re: Critique 1st attempt at English Dark Mild
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2017, 07:38:26 PM »

I've brewed the Tetley's Mild that Kevin mentioned in the end of his post, less the caramel colorant. (From what I can tell, the colorant doesn't impact flavor.) Can highly recommend that recipe.

Yes the Tetley's is very good. I don't use the brewers caramel either but I did recently find a place in the UK that sells it. I bought some but just haven't had a chance to try it yet.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Critique 1st attempt at English Dark Mild
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2017, 12:11:12 AM »

I've brewed the Tetley's Mild that Kevin mentioned in the end of his post, less the caramel colorant. (From what I can tell, the colorant doesn't impact flavor.) Can highly recommend that recipe.

Yes the Tetley's is very good. I don't use the brewers caramel either but I did recently find a place in the UK that sells it. I bought some but just haven't had a chance to try it yet.
I bought about two lifetime supplies a few years ago. There is no appreciable impact on flavor, but I enjoy being a bit more authentic on coloring my English ales and Mexican lagers.

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Offline Phil_M

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Re: Critique 1st attempt at English Dark Mild
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2017, 12:28:21 AM »
Only reason I haven't ordered some myself is the cost of shipping. Sooner or later I'm bound to have some disposable income that I throw towards it though. Meanwhile, the home brewery needs new hoses and valves...
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline rbowers

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Re: Critique 1st attempt at English Dark Mild
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2017, 11:14:25 AM »
Ok a few tweaks.
LHBS was somehow out of English Ale yeast so picked up a packet of West Yorkshire Ale instead as it seemed to carry relatively similar stats and was suggested as a good, but maybe different, substitute.

Mild Malt 6.5lb
Pale Chocolate 5 oz
Crystal 60 6oz
Crystal 150 5 oz
Black Patent 2oz

See how this goes. Appreciate the help.

Offline erockrph

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Re: Critique 1st attempt at English Dark Mild
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2017, 07:41:19 PM »
West Yorkshire is definitely a good substitute for English Ale.
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Offline brian_welch

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Re: Critique 1st attempt at English Dark Mild
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2017, 06:15:40 PM »

I've brewed the Tetley's Mild that Kevin mentioned in the end of his post, less the caramel colorant. (From what I can tell, the colorant doesn't impact flavor.) Can highly recommend that recipe.

Yes the Tetley's is very good. I don't use the brewers caramel either but I did recently find a place in the UK that sells it. I bought some but just haven't had a chance to try it yet.

I brewed the 1945 Tetley's Mild last year and also left out the caramel and really enjoyed that beer.

Just last month I brewed the 1963 Lees Mild from Ron's new Let's Brew book for a dark mild competition for my homebrew club. That recipe is for a pale mild, but earlier this year I bought some Brupak caramel from a homebrew shop in the UK and had it shipped to a friend in London who forwarded it to me for far cheaper than the shipping that the homebrew shop was going to charge.

From what I've read you can add the caramel in the boil, in the fermenter or in the bottling bucket. I decided to split this batch up half pale mild and half dark mild, so I opted to add the caramel in the bottling bucket.  I would not recommend that.  The stuff is pretty thick and I think I really oxidized the beer just trying to get it mixed in.

After two weeks I much prefer the pale version.  I may have to try it again, but this time adding the caramel to the boil to see if I like it better.  But I think I prefer pale mild to dark mild.

Offline erockrph

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Re: Critique 1st attempt at English Dark Mild
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2017, 04:12:54 PM »

I've brewed the Tetley's Mild that Kevin mentioned in the end of his post, less the caramel colorant. (From what I can tell, the colorant doesn't impact flavor.) Can highly recommend that recipe.

Yes the Tetley's is very good. I don't use the brewers caramel either but I did recently find a place in the UK that sells it. I bought some but just haven't had a chance to try it yet.

I brewed the 1945 Tetley's Mild last year and also left out the caramel and really enjoyed that beer.

Just last month I brewed the 1963 Lees Mild from Ron's new Let's Brew book for a dark mild competition for my homebrew club. That recipe is for a pale mild, but earlier this year I bought some Brupak caramel from a homebrew shop in the UK and had it shipped to a friend in London who forwarded it to me for far cheaper than the shipping that the homebrew shop was going to charge.

From what I've read you can add the caramel in the boil, in the fermenter or in the bottling bucket. I decided to split this batch up half pale mild and half dark mild, so I opted to add the caramel in the bottling bucket.  I would not recommend that.  The stuff is pretty thick and I think I really oxidized the beer just trying to get it mixed in.

After two weeks I much prefer the pale version.  I may have to try it again, but this time adding the caramel to the boil to see if I like it better.  But I think I prefer pale mild to dark mild.
If you're adding in the bottling bucket, I would dilute it with water first and it will mix in much more easily. If you know how much you're going to use in advance, I'd just include it with the priming sugar. If you're adjusting color on the fly and just planning on eyeballing it, then I found a 4:1 dilution with water was the minimum needed to thin it out to mix more easily with beer, and a 10:1 mixture would probably be even better.

I did a test with the caramel I have (33,000 EBC), and here were my results in case this is useful for you:

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=24192.msg309277#msg309277
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer