[syncopadence]

Topic

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[denny]

I haven't found one.

[Big Monk]

Most people don’t hold at mashout temperature for long enough to get any benefits anyway so skipping it usually isn’t noticed. If you step mash already, which many do, holding at mashout for >= 10 minutes is another tool in the dynamite foam toolbox. As always, YMMV.

[Robert]

I mash off at 170°F, transfer to lauter tun, and sparge at 170°F.  I have tried skipping the mash off and got significantly lower yield,  probably because the temperature drop in the transfer increases viscosity, and despite the sparge temperature the goods never warm up enough again, I suppose.  I guess if you're using a single vessel the sparge will raise the temperature sufficiently to maintain good flow and diffusion of extract. So yeah, YMMV.

[mabrungard]

The only downside is the possible loss of a couple potential gravity points. That potential increases if your sacc rest temperature is on the low side. If you're mashing in the mid to upper 150's, then the loss is probably minor. 

[Robert]

The only downside is the possible loss of a couple potential gravity points. That potential increases if your sacc rest temperature is on the low side. If you're mashing in the mid to upper 150's, then the loss is probably minor.

My alpha rest is at 162°F, which is about ideal for running off.  It is indeed a loss of only a couple of gravity points I saw when not mashing off before transfer. (I guess it's a matter of opinion whether that's significant. ) So if you can hit that temperature for runoff with no mash off, you probably wouldn't see any loss.  It's my understanding that a lot of the big breweries end their programs around 163°F. ( I get the idea I'm in the minority using a mash kettle and separate lauter tun. )

[coolman26]

I mash off at 170°F, transfer to lauter tun, and sparge at 170°F.  I have tried skipping the mash off and got significantly lower yield,  probably because the temperature drop in the transfer increases viscosity, and despite the sparge temperature the goods never warm up enough again, I suppose.  I guess if you're using a single vessel the sparge will raise the temperature sufficiently to maintain good flow and diffusion of extract. So yeah, YMMV.

This^^^
I do see a difference in my foam using this method. Worth the extra efforts IMO.


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[denny]

I mash off at 170°F, transfer to lauter tun, and sparge at 170°F.  I have tried skipping the mash off and got significantly lower yield,  probably because the temperature drop in the transfer increases viscosity, and despite the sparge temperature the goods never warm up enough again, I suppose.  I guess if you're using a single vessel the sparge will raise the temperature sufficiently to maintain good flow and diffusion of extract. So yeah, YMMV.

As far as I can tall, viscosit doesn't enter into it.  The limit of sugar solubility at mash temps would require a 1.300 gravity.  Unless your wort eceeds that, increasing the temp won't allow you to get any more sugar out.

[Robert]

Thanks for that info, Denny.  But something is affecting yield, and I'm curious what it is. Maybe Martin could elaborate? He addressed this.  As to Jeff's observation on foam:  I guess even if your alpha rest is on the low side, if you mash off you at least pass through the 162°-163°F range and gain some benefit in glycoprotein development.

[denny]

Thanks for that info, Denny.  But something is affecting yield, and I'm curious what it is. Maybe Martin could elaborate? He addressed this.  As to Jeff's observation on foam:  I guess even if your alpha rest is on the low side, if you mash off you at least pass through the 162°-163°F range and gain some benefit in glycoprotein development.

What I found by checking conversion efficiency is that the hotter temp is increasing conversion slightly.  So it's more that additonal sugar is being created more than you're drawing more out of the mash.

[Robert]

You mean, one last burst off alpha activity before it's denatured?

[denny]

You mean, one last burst off alpha activity before it's denatured?

Yep, that's what it looks like to me.

[coolman26]

Thanks for that info, Denny.  But something is affecting yield, and I'm curious what it is. Maybe Martin could elaborate? He addressed this.  As to Jeff's observation on foam:  I guess even if your alpha rest is on the low side, if you mash off you at least pass through the 162°-163°F range and gain some benefit in glycoprotein development.

What I found by checking conversion efficiency is that the hotter temp is increasing conversion slightly.  So it's more that additonal sugar is being created more than you're drawing more out of the mash.

Interesting and thanks. 


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[Robert]

Thanks for that info, Denny.  But something is affecting yield, and I'm curious what it is. Maybe Martin could elaborate? He addressed this.  As to Jeff's observation on foam:  I guess even if your alpha rest is on the low side, if you mash off you at least pass through the 162°-163°F range and gain some benefit in glycoprotein development.

What I found by checking conversion efficiency is that the hotter temp is increasing conversion slightly.  So it's more that additonal sugar is being created more than you're drawing more out of the mash.

I meant to dig out my old refractometer today and compare the mash before and after the mash off.  Forgot.
Curious about this!

[mabrungard]

My impression is that the increase is due to the extra heat extracting a bit more from the kernals.