Author Topic: Oxidation  (Read 1369 times)

Offline jc24

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Oxidation
« on: December 16, 2017, 02:06:13 PM »
I'm wondering why homebrewers are so worried about oxidation when we typically finish our beer within a couple months of brewing it? I can understand being more careful about something you're ageing for a year or so, but why do people go so mad for closed transfers etc. for something they're going to keg and finish in a few weeks?

Offline el_capitan

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Re: Oxidation
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2017, 02:20:29 PM »
I've always done what I can to limit oxidation, but I have not shifted my process toward the new low-oxygen brewing methods.  Mainly, this is because I do brew mainly for my own consumption and to share with friends.  I don't enter competitions, and I typically don't brew beers that need to age.  So my process suits my needs just fine.  In about 14 years of brewing, I've only had noticeable oxidation a couple times.  I really don't think it needs to be all or nothing.  But I would guess that others might have a stronger opinion.

Offline The Beerery

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Re: Oxidation
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2017, 02:38:33 PM »
All beer is oxidized, the real question is how much time do you have before it’s un-drinkable.   

The other problem being no one really knows what oxidation is.  Everyone knows the last stages of it. Cardboard and sherry.  But there are a myriad of other stages before that, hat get little to no mention, namely in this case hop flavor drop off.  Remember that beer you sampled before kegging and it was so bright and vibrant? Imagine that for the entirety of the keg.  That’s what strict cold processes enhance.  The better you are.  The better the beer tastes for longer. 


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Offline ethinson

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Re: Oxidation
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2017, 02:55:39 PM »
Based on scale of sizes, transfer methods, bottling methods, homebrew picks up a whole lot more oxygen than commercial beer.  At my brewery, our cut off limit for dissolved oxygen is 100 ppb.  Most of our beers are in the 20-40 range.  Towards they end of their shelf lives they start to show the signs of staling, cardboard, sherry, etc as mentioned above.  My own homebrews I've tested in the 1000s.  Maybe other people are better at it than me, but I know my stuff was going bad within like a month.  Homebrewers (except for those with conicals and pumps and CO2 pressure, basically nano-pro gear) will never get down below 100ppb. 

I recently stopped transferring my beer to secondary, which is one less time opening the carboy, one less time running it through a siphon, etc etc and it has made a huge difference in my beer quality, so even that reduction was worth it.  I may still be at 500ppb, but I'm half what I used to be.

To answer your original question point blank, people are obsessed with it because it makes such a huge and noticeable difference. 
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Oxidation
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2017, 03:58:40 PM »
Based on scale of sizes, transfer methods, bottling methods, homebrew picks up a whole lot more oxygen than commercial beer.  At my brewery, our cut off limit for dissolved oxygen is 100 ppb.  Most of our beers are in the 20-40 range.  Towards they end of their shelf lives they start to show the signs of staling, cardboard, sherry, etc as mentioned above.  My own homebrews I've tested in the 1000s.  Maybe other people are better at it than me, but I know my stuff was going bad within like a month.  Homebrewers (except for those with conicals and pumps and CO2 pressure, basically nano-pro gear) will never get down below 100ppb. 

I recently stopped transferring my beer to secondary, which is one less time opening the carboy, one less time running it through a siphon, etc etc and it has made a huge difference in my beer quality, so even that reduction was worth it.  I may still be at 500ppb, but I'm half what I used to be.

To answer your original question point blank, people are obsessed with it because it makes such a huge and noticeable difference.


How’s this for a homebrew





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Offline coolman26

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Re: Oxidation
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2017, 05:21:28 PM »
Based on scale of sizes, transfer methods, bottling methods, homebrew picks up a whole lot more oxygen than commercial beer.  At my brewery, our cut off limit for dissolved oxygen is 100 ppb.  Most of our beers are in the 20-40 range.  Towards they end of their shelf lives they start to show the signs of staling, cardboard, sherry, etc as mentioned above.  My own homebrews I've tested in the 1000s.  Maybe other people are better at it than me, but I know my stuff was going bad within like a month.  Homebrewers (except for those with conicals and pumps and CO2 pressure, basically nano-pro gear) will never get down below 100ppb. 

I recently stopped transferring my beer to secondary, which is one less time opening the carboy, one less time running it through a siphon, etc etc and it has made a huge difference in my beer quality, so even that reduction was worth it.  I may still be at 500ppb, but I'm half what I used to be.

To answer your original question point blank, people are obsessed with it because it makes such a huge and noticeable difference.


How’s this for a homebrew





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I’d comment, but I’m not sure what is happening with the inverted cans.


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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Oxidation
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2017, 08:04:38 PM »
Based on scale of sizes, transfer methods, bottling methods, homebrew picks up a whole lot more oxygen than commercial beer.  At my brewery, our cut off limit for dissolved oxygen is 100 ppb.  Most of our beers are in the 20-40 range.  Towards they end of their shelf lives they start to show the signs of staling, cardboard, sherry, etc as mentioned above.  My own homebrews I've tested in the 1000s.  Maybe other people are better at it than me, but I know my stuff was going bad within like a month.  Homebrewers (except for those with conicals and pumps and CO2 pressure, basically nano-pro gear) will never get down below 100ppb. 

I recently stopped transferring my beer to secondary, which is one less time opening the carboy, one less time running it through a siphon, etc etc and it has made a huge difference in my beer quality, so even that reduction was worth it.  I may still be at 500ppb, but I'm half what I used to be.

To answer your original question point blank, people are obsessed with it because it makes such a huge and noticeable difference.


How’s this for a homebrew





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I’d comment, but I’m not sure what is happening with the inverted cans.


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They are being tested for TPO/DO.

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Offline ethinson

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Re: Oxidation
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2017, 08:13:54 PM »

I’d comment, but I’m not sure what is happening with the inverted cans.


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Right below the gauge is a needle that is piercing the can.  You can't do that on the side with the pop top so you come in through the bottom. The beer is then flowing through that meter which is measuring Dissolved Oxygen.

22 is really good.  I'm assuming that was in a keg before it was canned? (therefore with head pressure, CO2 transfer etc etc).
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Oxidation
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2017, 08:21:24 PM »

I’d comment, but I’m not sure what is happening with the inverted cans.


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Right below the gauge is a needle that is piercing the can.  You can't do that on the side with the pop top so you come in through the bottom. The beer is then flowing through that meter which is measuring Dissolved Oxygen.

22 is really good.  I'm assuming that was in a keg before it was canned? (therefore with head pressure, CO2 transfer etc etc).


Yes it was. 


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Offline jc24

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Re: Oxidation
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2017, 09:39:13 PM »
Thanks for the replies all. So it seems I was right in thinking it’s normally only an issue if the beer is going to be stored for more than a couple of months? Apart from loss of hop aroma - that makes sense, and that alone is enough to convince me to set up a closed transfer system...


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Offline Big Monk

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Re: Oxidation
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2017, 09:49:54 PM »
Think of the hot side of the brewing process as filling a balloon with flavor. Think of the cold side as poking a hole in that balloon. No matter what methods you use or if you care about oxidation or don’t, success is ultimately judged by how small you make that hole.
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Offline coolman26

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Re: Oxidation
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2017, 03:25:04 AM »
Learn something new everyday. Not bad for Homebrew.


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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Oxidation
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2017, 12:51:42 PM »
Not bad for Homebrew.


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Not bad for homebrew! Not bad for a professional brewery  ;)

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Offline coolman26

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Re: Oxidation
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2017, 02:23:51 PM »
Not bad for Homebrew.


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Not bad for homebrew! Not bad for a professional brewery  ;)


Props, you’ve worked hard to get there! 


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Offline majorvices

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Re: Oxidation
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2017, 02:30:02 PM »
22 PPB in a homebrew is absolutely amazing, I have to admit. We get about 40-60 in the BT after centrifuge. I've basically stopped centrifuging hoppy beers and can get under 20 in the BBT.

A lot of commercial breweries out there are very shocked at their DO levels once they pick up a DO meter.