Author Topic: Mash/wort pH and oxidation  (Read 590 times)

Offline Robert

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Mash/wort pH and oxidation
« on: December 17, 2017, 04:31:37 AM »
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Rob
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Mash/wort pH and oxidation
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2017, 12:13:23 PM »
?
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Offline Robert

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Re: Mash/wort pH and oxidation
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2017, 12:33:35 PM »
Does mash and wort pH in any way affect susceptibility to oxidation later on?  Sorry, I was really tired when I posted that last night,  just wanted to get it out there.
Rob
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Mash/wort pH and oxidation
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2017, 12:50:16 PM »
Does mash and wort pH in any way affect susceptibility to oxidation later on?  Sorry, I was really tired when I posted that last night,  just wanted to get it out there.

Yes, Lower pH reduces LOX potential and LOX turns into T-2-N later on down the road.
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Offline Robert

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Re: Mash/wort pH and oxidation
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2017, 12:56:30 PM »
Does mash and wort pH in any way affect susceptibility to oxidation later on?  Sorry, I was really tired when I posted that last night,  just wanted to get it out there.

Yes, Lower pH reduces LOX potential and LOX turns into T-2-N later on down the road.

Thanks, I expected you'd turn up with the answer!  I've been rethinking (trying to minimize) my liquor treatment lately, and trying to balance all considerations as to what is really a necessary pH target.
Rob
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Offline narcout

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Re: Mash/wort pH and oxidation
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2017, 05:43:47 PM »
Does mash and wort pH in any way affect susceptibility to oxidation later on?  Sorry, I was really tired when I posted that last night,  just wanted to get it out there.

Yes, Lower pH reduces LOX potential and LOX turns into T-2-N later on down the road.

Thanks, I expected you'd turn up with the answer!  I've been rethinking (trying to minimize) my liquor treatment lately, and trying to balance all considerations as to what is really a necessary pH target.

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Offline Robert

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Re: Mash/wort pH and oxidation
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2017, 05:55:32 PM »
^^^^
5.1-5.2 ideal with regard to what goals? As I said, I'm looking to balance all considerations, and some, such as flavor,  body and mouthfeel, foam, wort clarity, and so on MAY favor a higher pH. (FWIW I've always aimed for 5.2-5.3, but am thinking up to 5.5 might be more acceptable, and as high as 5.6 not outside the realm of reason.)
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Offline Big Monk

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Re: Mash/wort pH and oxidation
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2017, 05:58:27 PM »
^^^^
5.1-5.2 ideal with regard to what goals? As I said, I'm looking to balance all considerations, and some, such as flavor,  body and mouthfeel, foam, wort clarity, and so on MAY favor a higher pH. (FWIW I've always aimed for 5.2-5.3, but am thinking up to 5.5 might be more acceptable, and as high as 5.6 not outside the realm of reason.)

5.4 is where you want to be for mash pH, with a 10 min acid addition in the boil to knock down to 5.0. This is the best of all worlds.
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Offline Robert

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Re: Mash/wort pH and oxidation
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2017, 06:09:08 PM »
^^^^
5.1-5.2 ideal with regard to what goals? As I said, I'm looking to balance all considerations, and some, such as flavor,  body and mouthfeel, foam, wort clarity, and so on MAY favor a higher pH. (FWIW I've always aimed for 5.2-5.3, but am thinking up to 5.5 might be more acceptable, and as high as 5.6 not outside the realm of reason.)

5.4 is where you want to be for mash pH, with a 10 min acid addition in the boil to knock down to 5.0. This is the best of all worlds.
I like the idea of 5.4 as a good compromise in the mash.  I wonder if conventional wisdom advocating anything lower derives from  the assumption of a peptonizing step.

I'm familiar with the idea of acidification in the kettle but have never tried it, unsure how to calculate the addition.  Tips?
Rob
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Offline Big Monk

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Re: Mash/wort pH and oxidation
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2017, 06:17:03 PM »
^^^^
5.1-5.2 ideal with regard to what goals? As I said, I'm looking to balance all considerations, and some, such as flavor,  body and mouthfeel, foam, wort clarity, and so on MAY favor a higher pH. (FWIW I've always aimed for 5.2-5.3, but am thinking up to 5.5 might be more acceptable, and as high as 5.6 not outside the realm of reason.)

5.4 is where you want to be for mash pH, with a 10 min acid addition in the boil to knock down to 5.0. This is the best of all worlds.
I like the idea of 5.4 as a good compromise in the mash.  I wonder if conventional wisdom advocating anything lower derives from  the assumption of a peptonizing step.

I'm familiar with the idea of acidification in the kettle but have never tried it, unsure how to calculate the addition.  Tips?

Download our Low Oxygen Brewing Spreadsheet from our site. It has a boil acidification option using either lactic, phosphoric or Sauergut.
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Offline narcout

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Re: Mash/wort pH and oxidation
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2017, 06:52:12 PM »
^^^^
5.1-5.2 ideal with regard to what goals?

Sorry, I should have been more clear.  I was referring specifically to reducing LOX activity as per Reply #3 above.
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Offline Robert

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Re: Mash/wort pH and oxidation
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2017, 08:11:39 PM »
Getting some good info here, thanks all.  Looking back at notes, I have had good results getting a reduction in pH in the kettle with calcium additions there, too.  Lots to consider.  As I said I'm looking for the right compromise strategy, taking my water supply as a given, with nothing to excess.  This is as much philosophy as anything else on my part (see my signature.) But recently I  have realized oxidation can come into play even though my beer is quickly consumed on draught.   (I mighttry to address this just with better purging and transfer procedures.)
Rob
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Mash/wort pH and oxidation
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2017, 10:12:06 PM »

5.4 is where you want to be for mash pH, with a 10 min acid addition in the boil to knock down to 5.0. This is the best of all worlds.

There is a lot to be said for mashing at 5.4 and keeping that temp for most of the boil. This is certainly true when brewing beers with high Pils malt content since the 5.4 pH helps convert SMM to DMS and its subsequent volatilization. However, I question the late boil reduction to 5.0. That pH might be OK for some styles, but not all.

I'm assuming that Derek's recommendation of 5.0 has something to do with the typical lager yeast's lesser capacity to acidify beer? My experience is that typical ales don't need their wort pH that low. They will acidify their beer to an appropriate pH if their wort pH is under 5.4 (OK, stouts and porters might be higher). An additional consideration is that beer's made with little or no Pils malt are far less likely to have DMS problems and probably don't have to have the 5.4 pH during the boil. 
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