Author Topic: Red Lager - Recipe Feedback?  (Read 885 times)

Offline Andy Farke

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Red Lager - Recipe Feedback?
« on: December 20, 2017, 03:17:18 PM »
I'm thinking about making a red lager soon, and was looking to get a little feedback for my draft recipe. In terms of basic idea with this, the aim is for something that's in the ballpark of an Irish Red Ale, but in lager form. BJCP criteria or any style adherence are not a consideration. I would like something that tips towards the malt side, and of course it would be nice to have a red tinge.

RED RYE LAGER - draft recipe*
7 lbs. pilsner malt
3 lbs. Munich I malt
1 lb. rye malt
0.5 lb. CaraRed malt
0.38 lb. crystal 120
.25 lb. roasted barley
4 oz. Magnum hop pellets, 60 minute boil (13.2 AAU)
2 oz. Hallertauer Mittelfrueh hop pellets, 10 minute boil (8 AAU)
Lager yeast (White Labs San Francisco Lager yeast perhaps -- WLP810?)

1.055 o.g., 1.017 f.g., 23 IBU, 15 SRM, 5.0% abv
Mash at 152 degrees

So some specific questions....
- if I can't get CaraRed at my local shop, is CaraVienne an OK substitute?
- I'm looking to add some rye spice; right now it's at 8% of the grist. Good idea? Bad idea?
- I'm bouncing around on the yeast variety; I use 34/70 pretty regularly for my lagers, and suspect it would do fine, but want to branch out a bit here. Are there other varieties folks might recommend in this case?
- Any other suggestions?

*the recipe is modified from an Irish Red Ale ("Better Red Than Dead") from the AHA website: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/better-red-than-dead/
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Red Lager - Recipe Feedback?
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2017, 03:30:43 PM »
Your finish gravity will be lover then 1.017.


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Offline Andy Farke

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Re: Red Lager - Recipe Feedback?
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2017, 04:29:54 PM »
Your finish gravity will be lover then 1.017.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, you're absolutely right on that...I'm figuring it will be more around 1.012 or so (1.017 was the default from BeerSmith; just posted from habit!)
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Offline goschman

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Re: Red Lager - Recipe Feedback?
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2017, 04:34:04 PM »
I would suggest more rye if you want spiciness. My current red rye is 17.5% rye and 2.5% chocolate rye and it’s just right for me. You probably don’t need that much since your not competing with 40% red x which is pretty powerful...
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Offline Andy Farke

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Re: Red Lager - Recipe Feedback?
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2017, 05:08:43 PM »
I would suggest more rye if you want spiciness. My current red rye is 17.5% rye and 2.5% chocolate rye and it’s just right for me. You probably don’t need that much since your not competing with 40% red x which is pretty powerful...

Cool! I'll consider upping the rye...

I've been reading some about Red X malt; I don't know that we have it at our local shop (but might check). At least from what I've read (and inferring from your comment), it can be a bit overwhelming!
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Offline RC

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Re: Red Lager - Recipe Feedback?
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2017, 06:11:29 PM »
I recently made an amber-ish rye lager that was a very similar recipe, but with 7% rye malt. It's awful. The rye is way too strong for my palate. It's an otherwise solid, clean lager, but because it's a clean lager the rye comes through unabated. And what I get from rye is a mushroomy-type earthiness, not the "spiciness" that others describe. Whether you like rye character in a beer is a personal taste, of course. But 8% rye malt in a lager will come through pretty strongly.


Offline Andy Farke

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Re: Red Lager - Recipe Feedback?
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2017, 06:22:09 PM »
I recently made an amber-ish rye lager that was a very similar recipe, but with 7% rye malt. It's awful. The rye is way too strong for my palate. It's an otherwise solid, clean lager, but because it's a clean lager the rye comes through unabated. And what I get from rye is a mushroomy-type earthiness, not the "spiciness" that others describe. Whether you like rye character in a beer is a personal taste, of course. But 8% rye malt in a lager will come through pretty strongly.

Interesting...I'm thinking that the strong maltiness from the Munich will balance out anything too overpowering? Maybe I'll dial it back in the end to ~5% or so, and increase it in a future iteration! I definitely want some rye character, so it's not "just" another amber lager.
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Offline Chris S

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Re: Red Lager - Recipe Feedback?
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2017, 09:02:06 PM »
I love Red X. For a similar result, I simplify it to 80% Red X and 20% rye. WLP940. Hallertau Blanc (2 oz @60 / 1 oz @ flameout).

Offline stpug

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Re: Red Lager - Recipe Feedback?
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2017, 12:07:13 AM »
My experience with rye has been with flaked rye and rye malt.  To me, each has their place and overall "rye" impact on the beer.  Flaked rye, for me, has been VERY mild almost to the point of neutral flavor (e.g. at 10% flaked rye, I cannot pick it out of the line-up); whereas, rye malt has a much more substantial flavor impact.  At least this has been my experience with those two formats of rye in beer.

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Red Lager - Recipe Feedback?
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2017, 12:38:57 AM »
My experience with rye has been with flaked rye and rye malt.  To me, each has their place and overall "rye" impact on the beer.  Flaked rye, for me, has been VERY mild almost to the point of neutral flavor (e.g. at 10% flaked rye, I cannot pick it out of the line-up); whereas, rye malt has a much more substantial flavor impact.  At least this has been my experience with those two formats of rye in beer.

Totally agree on the rye malt being more "pungent" than the flaked rye Pug...

And in addition, I would swap out the roasted barley with a smoother dark malt such as Carafa II or III. Perhaps even using the dehusked versions. I feel that they just come across better in a lager. Just my 2 cents...

Offline Andy Farke

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Re: Red Lager - Recipe Feedback?
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2017, 06:58:41 AM »
Thank you, all, for the great input! I've opted on a final recipe of ~8.5% rye and Carafa III for color adjustment. Will be brewing this one tomorrow...

RED RYE LAGER - draft recipe*
7 lbs. pilsner malt
3 lbs. Munich I malt
1 lb. rye malt
0.5 lb. CaraRed malt
0.38 lb. crystal 120
2 oz. Carafa III
0.4 oz. Magnum hop pellets, 60 minute boil (13.2 AAU)
2 oz. Hallertauer Mittelfrueh hop pellets, 10 minute boil (8 AAU)
White Labs San Francisco Lager yeast perhaps -- WLP810

1.055 o.g., ~1.012 f.g., 23 IBU, 15 SRM, 5.0% abv
Mash at 152 degrees
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: Red Lager - Recipe Feedback?
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2017, 03:36:27 PM »
Thank you, all, for the great input! I've opted on a final recipe of ~8.5% rye and Carafa III for color adjustment. Will be brewing this one tomorrow...

RED RYE LAGER - draft recipe*
7 lbs. pilsner malt
3 lbs. Munich I malt
1 lb. rye malt
0.5 lb. CaraRed malt
0.38 lb. crystal 120
2 oz. Carafa III
0.4 oz. Magnum hop pellets, 60 minute boil (13.2 AAU)
2 oz. Hallertauer Mittelfrueh hop pellets, 10 minute boil (8 AAU)
White Labs San Francisco Lager yeast perhaps -- WLP810

1.055 o.g., ~1.012 f.g., 23 IBU, 15 SRM, 5.0% abv
Mash at 152 degrees

Looks good!  I think it will be tasty.

Offline goschman

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Re: Red Lager - Recipe Feedback?
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2017, 05:26:15 PM »
I look forward to your write up. It looks like you just did another rye beer. Did that influence your choices here?
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Offline Andy Farke

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Re: Red Lager - Recipe Feedback?
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2017, 07:22:42 PM »
I look forward to your write up. It looks like you just did another rye beer. Did that influence your choices here?

It certainly did...although I suspect this one won't be quite as "rye-y".

Getting set to brew this afternoon!
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Offline Andy Farke

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Re: Red Lager - Recipe Feedback?
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2017, 04:54:26 AM »
And here is the write-up on my brewing session, with final recipe. In 2-3 months, I should have a tasting evaluation.

https://andybrews.com/2017/12/22/red-rye-lager/
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