Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!

[a10t2]

I'm still not convinced you didn't get some bum hops.

If you're in Ska's distribution footprint, try their Modus Mandarina. That's a 100% MB dry hop, and only about half as much as you're using.

[hopfenundmalz]

It doesn’t have the oil content of hops like Citra, but I have enjoyed the aroma of beers that I have made with it.

Same here. Definitely not as in your face (not surprising being a Hallertau offshoot), but it's a nice hop.

Citra has Hallertau Mittelfrüh in its breeding list.
https://ychhops.com/varieties/citra-brand-hbc-394-cv

[HoosierBrew]

Citra has Hallertau Mittelfrüh in its breeding list.
https://ychhops.com/varieties/citra-brand-hbc-394-cv

I'd seen that. I wonder how Citra ended up so intense and oily with parentage of mostly less intense hops?

[Robert]

Citra has Hallertau Mittelfrüh in its breeding list.
https://ychhops.com/varieties/citra-brand-hbc-394-cv

I'd seen that. I wonder how Citra ended up so intense and oily with parentage of mostly less intense hops?

Same way Lemondrop is so much less intense than its mother Cascade?  Or that Cascade itself has changed so much?  Every hop is its own thing, it seems.

[HoosierBrew]

Citra has Hallertau Mittelfrüh in its breeding list.
https://ychhops.com/varieties/citra-brand-hbc-394-cv

I'd seen that. I wonder how Citra ended up so intense and oily with parentage of mostly less intense hops?

Same way Lemondrop is so much less intense than its mother Cascade?  Or that Cascade itself has changed so much?  Every hop is its own thing, it seems.

I get that. Just seems the jump in intensity from Citra's parentage to Citra is a lot bigger than the drop off from Cascade to Lemondrop. I'm sure the answer lies in our ability nowadays to manipulate genetic factors in forming new hybrids. Pretty interesting regardless.

[Robert]

Citra has Hallertau Mittelfrüh in its breeding list.
https://ychhops.com/varieties/citra-brand-hbc-394-cv

I'd seen that. I wonder how Citra ended up so intense and oily with parentage of mostly less intense hops?

Same way Lemondrop is so much less intense than its mother Cascade?  Or that Cascade itself has changed so much?  Every hop is its own thing, it seems.

I get that. Just seems the jump in intensity from Citra's parentage to Citra is a lot bigger than the drop off from Cascade to Lemondrop. I'm sure the answer lies in our ability nowadays to manipulate genetic factors in forming new hybrids. Pretty interesting regardless.

It might also show just how much we don't know about genetics, or to what degree genes and/or other factors are really determining characteristics.  The fact that cloned varieties change so much with time and place suggests genetics aren't the be all and end all.

[denny]

Citra has Hallertau Mittelfrüh in its breeding list.
https://ychhops.com/varieties/citra-brand-hbc-394-cv

I'd seen that. I wonder how Citra ended up so intense and oily with parentage of mostly less intense hops?

Same way Lemondrop is so much less intense than its mother Cascade?  Or that Cascade itself has changed so much?  Every hop is its own thing, it seems.

Cascade has changed?  In what way?

[klickitat jim]

Are hops GMO?

[hopfenundmalz]

Are hops GMO?

Absolutely not.

Hop breeding will select hops with flavors and aromas that were culled from the breeding program in past years. They may start off with 40-50k plants from the crosses, then selectively elimate ones that don’t meetagranomics first, then for the brewing qualities.

[a10t2]

Are hops GMO?

Only in the sense that cats and dogs are GMO.

[klickitat jim]

Then it's probably not that, huh?

[Robert]

Citra has Hallertau Mittelfrüh in its breeding list.
https://ychhops.com/varieties/citra-brand-hbc-394-cv

I'd seen that. I wonder how Citra ended up so intense and oily with parentage of mostly less intense hops?

Same way Lemondrop is so much less intense than its mother Cascade?  Or that Cascade itself has changed so much?  Every hop is its own thing, it seems.

Cascade has changed?  In what way?

When I first tasted Liberty Ale and Sierra Nevada, I recall a distinct lemony character.  Subjective, and memory dependent,  but I've heard others say that too.

[denny]

When I first tasted Liberty Ale and Sierra Nevada, I recall a distinct lemony character.  Subjective, and memory dependent,  but I've heard others say that too.

You need to account for year to year crop variations and terroir.  A lot of Cascade from one farm will not be exactly like one from another farm.  Even on the same farm there can be lot to lot variations.  That's why brewers go to Yakima to sample from different lots and select exactly the lot they want.  Steve Dresler, from Sierra Nevada, is there every year...or was til he retired last year.

[hopfenundmalz]

Are hops GMO?

Only in the sense that cats and dogs are GMO.

Or humans!

What I understand is that brewers don’t want GMO hops or barley, so no market for those.

[Robert]

When I first tasted Liberty Ale and Sierra Nevada, I recall a distinct lemony character.  Subjective, and memory dependent,  but I've heard others say that too.

You need to account for year to year crop variations and terroir.  A lot of Cascade from one farm will not be exactly like one from another farm.  Even on the same farm there can be lot to lot variations.  That's why brewers go to Yakima to sample from different lots and select exactly the lot they want.  Steve Dresler, from Sierra Nevada, is there every year...or was til he retired last year.

Kinda my point.  So many things affect character, there's probably genetic drift, and genes probably that affect response to climate and terroire,  so it shouldn't be surprising that a hop doesn't taste like a 50/50 blend of some example of two parents.  Seems hop breeding is kind of a "black box" situation.