Membership questions? Log in issues? Email info@brewersassociation.org

Author Topic: The Myth of the 100+ IBU IPA  (Read 1914 times)

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 10675
  • Milford, MI
The Myth of the 100+ IBU IPA
« on: January 06, 2018, 09:29:22 am »
This is a good read, by a Chemistry Prof.

https://sommbeer.com/the-myth-of-the-100-ibu-ipa/
Jeff Rankert
AHA Lifetime Member
BJCP National
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline HoosierBrew

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 13031
  • Indianapolis,IN
Re: The Myth of the 100+ IBU IPA
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2018, 09:59:49 am »
Thanks for posting, Jeff. The arms race with IBU has been silly for a while.
Jon H.

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 10675
  • Milford, MI
Re: The Myth of the 100+ IBU IPA
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2018, 10:00:56 am »
The IBU wars are over, I think. Pliny only tests at about 65IBUs these days.
Jeff Rankert
AHA Lifetime Member
BJCP National
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline Robert

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4214
Re: The Myth of the 100+ IBU IPA
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2018, 10:18:33 am »
I always wondered when the dirty secret would get out.  But I think it's even worse: The author explains the ~100IBU solubility limit in WORT. But of course ~75% of bitter substances are lost in chilling, fermentation and ageing.  So I was always under the impression that the IBU limit in BEER is around 75. If Pliny is really testing at 65, that sounds about right.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline mabrungard

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2901
  • Water matters!
    • Bru'n Water
Re: The Myth of the 100+ IBU IPA
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2018, 12:15:15 pm »
I've had that Malowicki paper for a decade. Its very illuminating. As I recall, the solubility limit for iso-alpha acids in wort is around 80 to 85 ppm (aka: 80 to 85 IBU).

The thing that has me intrigued is the existence of another bittering compound. I can't recall its name, but its something like Humuline. Denny corrected me the last time, time for his input again. That compound is readily extracted during dry hopping and its not reflected in IBU measurement.
Martin B
Carmel, IN

BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://www.brunwater.com/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/Brun-Water-464551136933908/?ref=bookmarks

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 27070
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: The Myth of the 100+ IBU IPA
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2018, 12:17:17 pm »
I've had that Malowicki paper for a decade. Its very illuminating. As I recall, the solubility limit for iso-alpha acids in wort is around 80 to 85 ppm (aka: 80 to 85 IBU).

The thing that has me intrigued is the existence of another bittering compound. I can't recall its name, but its something like Humuline. Denny corrected me the last time, time for his input again. That compound is readily extracted during dry hopping and its not reflected in IBU measurement.

Humulinone....oxidized alpha acids.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 10675
  • Milford, MI
Re: The Myth of the 100+ IBU IPA
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2018, 07:20:06 pm »
I always wondered when the dirty secret would get out.  But I think it's even worse: The author explains the ~100IBU solubility limit in WORT. But of course ~75% of bitter substances are lost in chilling, fermentation and ageing.  So I was always under the impression that the IBU limit in BEER is around 75. If Pliny is really testing at 65, that sounds about right.
Vinnie used to say it was 95 IBU measured in the lab, a few have said it is 65 now. Last January I was in Pasadena, and Drew recommended a top at Lucky Baldwin’s, stoped and they had just tapped a keg a Pliny, it was not as bitter as I remember years back in Santa Rosa.  I have talked to one guy from a large MI brewer that their DIPA was 113 IBU in the lab, and I would trust him as that was a tongue bruiser.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 07:23:18 pm by hopfenundmalz »
Jeff Rankert
AHA Lifetime Member
BJCP National
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 10675
  • Milford, MI
Re: The Myth of the 100+ IBU IPA
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2018, 07:24:16 pm »
I've had that Malowicki paper for a decade. Its very illuminating. As I recall, the solubility limit for iso-alpha acids in wort is around 80 to 85 ppm (aka: 80 to 85 IBU).

The thing that has me intrigued is the existence of another bittering compound. I can't recall its name, but its something like Humuline. Denny corrected me the last time, time for his input again. That compound is readily extracted during dry hopping and its not reflected in IBU measurement.

Humulinone....oxidized alpha acids.
Oxidized Beat Acida are also bitter, and are soluable.
Jeff Rankert
AHA Lifetime Member
BJCP National
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline Robert

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4214
Re: The Myth of the 100+ IBU IPA
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2018, 07:26:45 pm »
I always wondered when the dirty secret would get out.  But I think it's even worse: The author explains the ~100IBU solubility limit in WORT. But of course ~75% of bitter substances are lost in chilling, fermentation and ageing.  So I was always under the impression that the IBU limit in BEER is around 75. If Pliny is really testing at 65, that sounds about right.
Vinnie used to say it was 95 IBU measured in the lab, a few have said it is 65 now.  I have talked to one guy from a large MI brewer that their DIPA was 113 IBU in the lab, and I would trust him as that was a tongue bruiser.
I presume those beers are using extracts? I recall Pliny was one of the first to do so.  I was thinking ~75 is about tops for a beer made in the traditional way, relying on boiling hops for all the bitterness, which is probably what most of the small operations claiming insane IBU are doing.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 10675
  • Milford, MI
Re: The Myth of the 100+ IBU IPA
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2018, 08:46:56 pm »
I always wondered when the dirty secret would get out.  But I think it's even worse: The author explains the ~100IBU solubility limit in WORT. But of course ~75% of bitter substances are lost in chilling, fermentation and ageing.  So I was always under the impression that the IBU limit in BEER is around 75. If Pliny is really testing at 65, that sounds about right.
Vinnie used to say it was 95 IBU measured in the lab, a few have said it is 65 now.  I have talked to one guy from a large MI brewer that their DIPA was 113 IBU in the lab, and I would trust him as that was a tongue bruiser.
I presume those beers are using extracts? I recall Pliny was one of the first to do so.  I was thinking ~75 is about tops for a beer made in the traditional way, relying on boiling hops for all the bitterness, which is probably what most of the small operations claiming insane IBU are doing.

Vinnie used to say 95 IBU and admitted to using extracts. The one I referenced didn’t, but it was a 10+ ABV beer, and I have read that the IBUs can go up with higher ABV. Often residual sugars hide the higher ABV.
Jeff Rankert
AHA Lifetime Member
BJCP National
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline erockrph

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7786
  • Chepachet, RI
    • The Hop WHisperer
Re: The Myth of the 100+ IBU IPA
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2018, 06:15:28 am »
I've been saying this for years, but once you hit about 60 IBU's the other factors that affect bitterness play more of a role in differentiating two beers. The actual lab-measured IBU level means far less for extremely hoppy beers than something like a blonde ale or a malty lager.

FWIW, I've had an IPA lab-measured at 98 IBU. Its only hop addition was a large (~4oz/gallon) 90-minute flameout addition at flameout. To my palate, the bitterness was far less than a typical West Coast-style IPA despite the large measured IBU value.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer