Author Topic: The Demise of TechTalk  (Read 9411 times)

Online dbeechum

  • Administrator
  • Brewmaster General
  • *****
  • Posts: 2399
  • Pasadena, CA
    • View Profile
    • Experimental Brewing
Re: The Demise of TechTalk
« Reply #60 on: August 08, 2010, 11:26:46 PM »
Gabe,

I think much of the defensiveness and snarls that we're seeing on both sides are just the end result of people's innate territorialness and protecting the reputation of their enclave.

In truth, I think the communities are really the same as long as there's a respectful approach.

Drew Beechum - Maltosefalcons.com
- Vote in the AHA GC Election! - http://bit.ly/1aV9GVd  -
-----
Burbling:
Gnome is in the Details
*Experimental Brewing - The Book*
Tap:
Peanut Butter Jelly Time
Tupelo Mead
Farmhouse Brett Saison

Offline bluesman

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8808
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: The Demise of TechTalk
« Reply #61 on: August 09, 2010, 06:57:54 AM »
I've followed the forum since it started, but I'm more a fan of TechTalk, one of those long-in-the-tooth geezers (actually, FYI, a 28-year-old tech-friendly journalist). I'm not here to explain or defend that preference. I'll miss TT, but I understand the reasons behind the shift.

Frankly, though, I'm pretty turned off to the idea of being part of this community after reading the responses from forum members towards those prefering TT. I don't agree with the TechTalkers who have been bashing the forum, and likewise I don't need to deal with you guys on the forum who have responded in kind.

Thanks guys; way to make this a welcoming, open place. Meanwhile, plenty of HBD users are on TT saying, "Come on in, the water's fine." Maybe you could take a lesson from that, rather than trying to belittle us dinosaurs.

Thank you, honestly, for the civility from those of you (Denny, Drew and many others) who have shown it. It's a shame a vocal minority has to frame this as an "us vs. them" issue.

Sorry to hear that you feel this way.  I hope you will have a change of heart.  If you do, I believe you will find that this is a great place to live and learn.  There are many great brewers here that love to interact and exchange brewing knowledge and information as you will find if you change your mind.  Good Luck!

« Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 09:31:56 AM by bluesman »
Ron Price

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 7732
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: The Demise of TechTalk
« Reply #62 on: August 09, 2010, 07:11:08 AM »
I've followed the forum since it started, but I'm more a fan of TechTalk, one of those long-in-the-tooth geezers (actually, FYI, a 28-year-old tech-friendly journalist). I'm not here to explain or defend that preference. I'll miss TT, but I understand the reasons behind the shift.

Frankly, though, I'm pretty turned off to the idea of being part of this community after reading the responses from forum members towards those prefering TT. I don't agree with the TechTalkers who have been bashing the forum, and likewise I don't need to deal with you guys on the forum who have responded in kind.

Thanks guys; way to make this a welcoming, open place. Meanwhile, plenty of HBD users are on TT saying, "Come on in, the water's fine." Maybe you could take a lesson from that, rather than trying to belittle us dinosaurs.

Thank you, honestly, for the civility from those of you (Denny, Drew and many others) who have shown it. It's a shame a vocal minority has to frame this as an "us vs. them" issue.

I am also sorry you feel this way and hope that you would see that only a small minority of posts were even slightly antagonistic. I personally hope anything I said didn't offend anyone, I was just trying to lighten the mood a little. Wasn't trying to insult anyone so I apologize if anything I said came off unwelcoming. I certainly would like to welcome everyone to the forum, especially the TechTalkers, dinosaurs they may be.  :D ;) Seriously, I'm just kidding.

But, if I may beat my old drum again, I notice that too many of you that say you "follow the forum" don't participate. I am simply saying that you should use it before you make pronouncements on its usefulness.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 07:17:17 AM by majorvices »
Keith Y.

Vote Jonathan Fuller for Governing Committee!

Offline theDarkSide

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2432
  • Derry, NH
    • View Profile
Re: The Demise of TechTalk
« Reply #63 on: August 09, 2010, 07:31:33 AM »
Maybe you could head over to the "Howdy Everyone" thread in The Pub and introduce yourself.  Let us know about your brewing, what styles you like, and yourself in general.  You'd be surprised how welcoming it can be.

I don't think I said anything antagonistic when I started this thread.  I was mostly just posting my surprise at the response of TT going away.  I then posted a few examples of some of the talk over there against the forum users, but don't think I shot back. Although I was a little shocked about some of the comments from our brewing brothers and sisters.

From day one back in November, I've always felt like I've belonged, even when some of my humor and comments have been slightly inappropriate.  ( Which the mods are very efficient at controlling :) )
Sergeant - BNArmy Member
AHA Member
Stephen M.
------------------------------------------------
Vote Jonathan Fuller for AHA Governing Committee http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/membership/aha-governing-committee/election/jonathan-fuller-3/
Get a grip and Vote for Chip for AHA Governing Committee - http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/membership/aha-governing-committee/election/chip-walton-3

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 13482
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: The Demise of TechTalk
« Reply #64 on: August 09, 2010, 08:55:59 AM »
Thank you, honestly, for the civility from those of you (Denny, Drew and many others) who have shown it. It's a shame a vocal minority has to frame this as an "us vs. them" issue.

Please keep in mind that it's a minority.  We've got a great group here.  Please hang around long enough to find out for yourself!
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline fredek

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: The Demise of TechTalk
« Reply #65 on: August 10, 2010, 08:25:23 AM »
"The people complaining would probably prefer to be reading brewing news via UseNet over a 1200 baud modem connection to their local BBS.  Some people can't deal with change..."

This is one of the reasons I will miss TechTalk; no trash-talk flaming going on, just simple, straightforward beer-and-brewing questions and answers. As to waiting a day (or, gadzooks, a weekend) for a reply, well, with age comes patience.

I realize that everything changes and acceptance is part of adaptation, but at least I was regularly helped on TechTalk and never insulted.

Offline blatz

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2620
  • Paul Blatz - Jupiter, FL
    • View Profile
Re: The Demise of TechTalk
« Reply #66 on: August 10, 2010, 08:31:46 AM »
fredek - welcome to the forum.  I can assure you from being part of this board since week 1, that the quote you referenced is an abberation and not the norm.  if you look through the threads, you'll see that this forum is by and large 'flame free' and the folks here are very knowledgeable and helpful, including the poster of that comment.  There are plenty of forums out there that are only for the thick skinned, but this one is fairly laid back and well moderated.

And not to defend, but I think that comment was in response to a 'flame comment' made on the TT about the members of the forum  ;) .  

Glad to see you on the board, and lets just move on from all this sixth grade stuff and get back to making good beer!

Cheers!
The happiest people don’t necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have.

BJCP National: F0281

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 13482
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: The Demise of TechTalk
« Reply #67 on: August 10, 2010, 08:36:46 AM »
Glad to see you on the board, and lets just move on from all this sixth grade stuff and get back to making good beer!

Cheers!

I'll drink to that! 
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline narvin

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1372
  • Baltimore
    • View Profile
Re: The Demise of TechTalk
« Reply #68 on: August 10, 2010, 09:04:05 AM »
I apologize... my intent was never to insult, and that was posted here before this actually became a two-way discussion with tech talkers.  Take it as a gentle ribbing  :)

It was also directed at a small but vocal minority of the Tech Talk posters who seemed genuinely negative about using a forum without even trying it.  There are valid reasons why the email list works for some people, and I agree that there are things that can be done to make the forum work better.

As the posters above said, welcome!
« Last Edit: August 10, 2010, 10:54:33 AM by narvin »
Please do not reply if your an evil alien!
Thanks
Chris S.

Offline theDarkSide

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2432
  • Derry, NH
    • View Profile
Re: The Demise of TechTalk
« Reply #69 on: August 10, 2010, 05:35:01 PM »
Ok..I just can't help myself.  Another couple points brought up in the TT email:

How do you account for the off-list email responses that occur to some posts? (Did we shoot ourselves in the foot with this one by not posting all responses to the list?)

Yes...and this is where the forum is better.  If people have been responding via email directly to the poster, the rest of the membership does not have access to that knowledge. 

You go, Louise Fugier!  Certainly your suggestion of POLLING to resolve an apparent problem is the one rational place to start

So if the membership of the AHA votes in this poll and the majority are for dismantling TT, will everyone go quietly?

I do wish the AHA would discontinue the forum and give me back my Tech Talk

You think there is a backlash now, imagine what it would be if they attempted this.

Okay, I'll stop now.  At least for tonight.   ;)

Sergeant - BNArmy Member
AHA Member
Stephen M.
------------------------------------------------
Vote Jonathan Fuller for AHA Governing Committee http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/membership/aha-governing-committee/election/jonathan-fuller-3/
Get a grip and Vote for Chip for AHA Governing Committee - http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/membership/aha-governing-committee/election/chip-walton-3

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 7732
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: The Demise of TechTalk
« Reply #70 on: August 10, 2010, 06:23:33 PM »
Unfortunately very few of the TechTalkers are reading this and most of the ones who have responded to this thread have been one and out. That's a shame. I'm sure we would all find we have much more in common than differences.
Keith Y.

Vote Jonathan Fuller for Governing Committee!

Offline tschmidlin

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8195
  • Redmond, WA
    • View Profile
Re: The Demise of TechTalk
« Reply #71 on: August 10, 2010, 07:44:06 PM »
It's a shame that more people from techtalk don't want to embrace the forum.  It's their loss AND our loss.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline Crispy275

  • Global Moderator
  • Assistant Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 112
    • View Profile
Tech Talk
« Reply #72 on: August 11, 2010, 06:39:43 AM »
Over the years I have enjoyed TechTalk at varying levels of participation. When busy, whole weeks would go by without me doing much more than glancing at the topics, and then deleting it. Other times, I would fully engage in reading them, and on rare occasions, responding to specific areas where I felt I had a good knowledge base to do so. I have always felt that TT was a good product, and it wasn't by accident, but by considered and careful efforts of Ryan and the previous moderators.

At the 2010 National Homebrewers Conference, we shared the direction that the AHA was considering with regards to TechTalk and the Forum. Two or three members expressed their displeasure, and we had essentially had one-on-one conversation while 100+ people listened and occassionally chimed in. In the end, the members concerned about this direction were split. A few said that they would try the forum; at least one was still upset and expressed his displeasure. Several members indicated that they were very happy with the new website's look, feel and utility, and concurred that TT's time had come.

In retrospect, there should have been more communications early on that this was being considered. The AHA GC and AHA staff have been discussing this for many months, and not every member of the AHA GC has been in favor. But, if memory serves me correctly, 13 of us (me included) were in favor of taking advantage of the Forum's features, while 2 suggested we try to maintain both.

We delayed any actions with regards to TT while Drew, Denny and Fred investigated features that could enhance the forum, an effort that continues today. Addressing mobile application readability is one such effort, enhanced RSS features is another. During our call last night the response to TT was the primary discussion item, and it had also generated several dozen emails amoung the AHA GC and staff during the last week.

Gary has taken the discussions seriously, and while he hasn't said as much, I suspect he is taken several of the comments very personally. To be accused of being elitist or anything other than impassioned about what he does for homebrewing has to cut him to the quick. To my knowledge, there isn't another soul that I have meet that so embodies what it means to support and build a vibrant, thriving homebrewing culture. In my mind, Gary is the best thing that has happened to the American homebrewing scene and to the AHA.

In the years I have been on the GC, Gary and I have spoken one on one probably a hundred times to bounce things off of each other, provide feedback I have received from my local homebrewing community on any number of topics, to identify, prioritize and establish agenda items for the GC to consider, discuss and vote on. He has been accessable, engaged and always has had homebreers interests as his number one priority. To those who have suggested that he has acted in a vacuum, without consideration of the members wants, I can just say that this has not been so.

With the virtual doubling of membership during the last five years, the AHA still remains essentially 3.5 people: Gary, Janis, Kate and half of Jill, with assistance from other BA staffers. Their workload has been increased significantly. The AHA is far more than just Zymurgy and TechTalk. It includes an increasing amount of time and effort in legislative affairs, protecting homebrewers rights, attempting to get shipping legalized and legalizing homebrewing where it is still technically illegal. Competitions, Big Brew, Mead Day, Teach a Friend to brew, these events contribute to community building and developing awareness. Setting up and communicating AHA rallies, developing and chasing down leads for participants in the Pub Discount program, soliciting authors for topics and articles, creating and soliciting content to make the website better, etc.

Gary and the GC members have heard the concerns voiced by the recent posts and private emails by several members. In yesterday's TechTalk he suggested that any member who could build a better mouse trap to contact him. Last night Drew volunteered to take this charge and will respond on TT today to solicit those volunteers who wish to make this a reality to contact him.

Drew will lay out the necessary parameters, and those who wish to step up and help can contact him directly. I can assure anyone who feels that their voice isn't being heard that this is not the case. The opportunity for those who feel that they can  help improve the AHA with their knowledge and experience is here and now, and I hope this enables those members who currently feel disenfranchised the opportunity to step up and help show us how this can be done.

Respectfully yours,
« Last Edit: August 11, 2010, 08:30:52 AM by Crispy275 »
Chris P. Frey, aka "Crispy"
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen
AHA Governing Committee (2004 - present, Past Chairman 2009-2012)
Brewers Association Board of Directors (2010 - present)
[9.6, 165] Apparent Rennerian

Offline passlaku

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 185
    • View Profile
Re: The Demise of TechTalk
« Reply #73 on: August 11, 2010, 10:31:16 AM »
Most of the people I met at the NHC would complain about how tech talk just took up space in their inbox.  Likewise, I never submitted questions to TT because I always felt like it was spammy, I hate sending out mass emails.  The forum, though it takes getting used to, is a nice compromise.  For it to thrive, I'd like to ask the governing committee to encourage their colleagues on the committee to start posting.  For instance, I am thrilled to see Gordon Strong participating and will read just about anything he posts but I'd like to hear from more of the "stars" in homebrew. It would be quite exciting to start seeing some of these guys start posting here.

Offline theDarkSide

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2432
  • Derry, NH
    • View Profile
Re: The Demise of TechTalk
« Reply #74 on: August 11, 2010, 10:35:06 AM »
For it to thrive, I'd like to ask the governing committee to encourage their colleagues on the committee to start posting.  For instance, I am thrilled to see Gordon Strong participating and will read just about anything he posts but I'd like to hear from more of the "stars" in homebrew. It would be quite exciting to start seeing some of these guys start posting here.

Charlie P even posted once.  Talk about a rock star.
Sergeant - BNArmy Member
AHA Member
Stephen M.
------------------------------------------------
Vote Jonathan Fuller for AHA Governing Committee http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/membership/aha-governing-committee/election/jonathan-fuller-3/
Get a grip and Vote for Chip for AHA Governing Committee - http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/membership/aha-governing-committee/election/chip-walton-3