Author Topic: Clarifying agents  (Read 1592 times)

Offline jkirkham

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
    • View Profile
Clarifying agents
« on: January 18, 2018, 01:17:19 AM »
I am wondering the difference between some clarifying agents. I typically use whirl flock at 10 minutes or so and have also used gelatin in secondary instead of whirlflock. Never in a keg.

Are there benefits to using more than one clarifying agent when you brew and move on to kegging or bottling?
I am in the process of fermenting a lager and have have great success with clear beers in the past. 

I used whirl flock for this recipe and have never used two agents in a beer before, should I? Or is it unnecessary?
Vice President
Flagstaff Mountain-Top Mashers
2017 Homebrewer of the year

Offline klickitat jim

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8460
    • View Profile
Re: Clarifying agents
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2018, 01:27:55 AM »
I use wirlfloc in every boil. I used to use gelatin at the end of primary but I made the mistake of smelling it once. I really don't see a difference with OR without. Maybe I've fixed some upstream problems along the way and no longer need it.

Offline Robert

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1540
    • View Profile
Re: Clarifying agents
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2018, 01:42:17 AM »
OP says he's doing a lager, which has me wondering: I use (exclusively) Weihenstephan 34/70.  The strain is extremely powdery --  one of its virtues -- but -- it doesn't clear even with up to 4 weeks lagering, so I remove it with filtration.  I wouldn't mind avoiding that.  Would gelatin in  lagering effectively do that?  I want crystal clear!
Rob
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline klickitat jim

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8460
    • View Profile
Re: Clarifying agents
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2018, 01:49:30 AM »
In my experience, gelatined pale lager beer is clear a little faster than non gelatined, but after a month or so of cold storage they are the same.

I use 2206 for lagers these days

Offline Robert

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1540
    • View Profile
Re: Clarifying agents
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2018, 02:04:35 AM »
Right now drinking a Kellerbier, 24 days at 29°-30°F an unfiltered.  Don't know how well You can see it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1V7Jn4RbIjbtpGR0X7wZ8zEI7h8wJeaeX/view?usp=drivesdk
Rob
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline jkirkham

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
    • View Profile
Re: Clarifying agents
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2018, 02:20:28 AM »
OP says he's doing a lager, which has me wondering: I use (exclusively) Weihenstephan 34/70.  The strain is extremely powdery --  one of its virtues -- but -- it doesn't clear even with up to 4 weeks lagering, so I remove it with filtration.  I wouldn't mind avoiding that.  Would gelatin in  lagering effectively do that?  I want crystal clear!

This is the strain I am using. Right now it’s at 50* fermenting low. I’ll crash it and throw it in secondary in a few weeks. 

I could gelatin in secondary? I suppose I’ll see how clear it gets in secondary and then decide.
Vice President
Flagstaff Mountain-Top Mashers
2017 Homebrewer of the year

Offline jkirkham

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
    • View Profile
Re: Clarifying agents
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2018, 02:21:52 AM »
I use wirlfloc in every boil. I used to use gelatin at the end of primary but I made the mistake of smelling it once. I really don't see a difference with OR without. Maybe I've fixed some upstream problems along the way and no longer need it.

Some beers I don’t use any fining agents, like neipa. I do like clarity though.
Vice President
Flagstaff Mountain-Top Mashers
2017 Homebrewer of the year

Offline Robert

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1540
    • View Profile
Re: Clarifying agents
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2018, 02:25:33 AM »
I use wirlfloc in every boil. I used to use gelatin at the end of primary but I made the mistake of smelling it once. I really don't see a difference with OR without. Maybe I've fixed some upstream problems along the way and no longer need it.

Some beers I don’t use any fining agents, like neipa. I do like clarity though.
Yeah, the Kellerbier was kind of a one-off, my Pils, Helles etc need crystal clarity.   Lagering easily removes chill haze, but 34/70 not.
Rob
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline jkirkham

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
    • View Profile
Re: Clarifying agents
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2018, 02:27:49 AM »
I use wirlfloc in every boil. I used to use gelatin at the end of primary but I made the mistake of smelling it once. I really don't see a difference with OR without. Maybe I've fixed some upstream problems along the way and no longer need it.

Some beers I don’t use any fining agents, like neipa. I do like clarity though.
Yeah, the Kellerbier was kind of a one-off, my Pils, Helles etc need crystal clarity.   Lagering easily removes chill haze, but 34/70 not.

Is Time the only thing that will remove chill haze besides filtration? I don’t have a filter. Ha.
I mad going to see what happens, but after secondary I am thinking about gelatin in a keg, never done it, wanna try.
Vice President
Flagstaff Mountain-Top Mashers
2017 Homebrewer of the year

Offline Robert

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1540
    • View Profile
Re: Clarifying agents
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2018, 02:39:04 AM »
With good malt, good mash/sparge/boil and Irish moss (I use the regular kind not whirlfloc*) you might pretty well eliminate chill haze, but cold time will settle any that's left  out.  Filtering just separates what lies above from what settled out. Racking might do the same, but yeast remains the problem for me.  I used to use gelatin AND filter, but realized this was just an extra load on the filter.  Never just gelatin.  So I'm wondering. (I remember the method, but don't even remember the dosage for gelatin. )

*Reason is that Irish moss is not very selective, it removes foam active proteins as well as haze active, so you want to use the minimum effective dose and no more.  It's easy to weigh out Irish moss flakes and properly hydrate them, while Whirlfloc tablets are a massive overdose unless you grind them up and weigh it out. PITA.
Rob
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline goschman

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3432
    • View Profile
Re: Clarifying agents
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2018, 02:45:01 AM »
I use whirlfloc and gelatin after cold crashing for a couple of days. Never had an issue getting 34/70 very clear very quickly.

I have switched to S189 which gives me a little more problems...
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 02:47:09 AM by goschman »
On Tap/Bottled: Haze for Daze IPA, G Pils, Maibock, Watermelon Cider         

Fermenting: Kolsch
Up Next: Summer Ale, Gose

Offline klickitat jim

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8460
    • View Profile
Re: Clarifying agents
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2018, 02:46:51 AM »
I cut them in half with a pill cutter.

Offline Robert

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1540
    • View Profile
Re: Clarifying agents
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2018, 02:53:02 AM »
I use whirlfloc and gelatin after cold crashing for a couple of days. Never had an issue getting 34/70 very clear very quickly.

I have switched to S189 which gives me a little more problems...

I'll be transferring a Pils to lagering next week. Used Irish moss as usual in the kettle. Maybe I'll give gelatin a try in cold storage, then jump kegs and carbonate.  What's the dosage?
Rob
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline goschman

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3432
    • View Profile
Re: Clarifying agents
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2018, 02:55:30 AM »
I use whirlfloc and gelatin after cold crashing for a couple of days. Never had an issue getting 34/70 very clear very quickly.

I have switched to S189 which gives me a little more problems...

I'll be transferring a Pils to lagering next week. Used Irish moss as usual in the kettle. Maybe I'll give gelatin a try in cold storage, then jump kegs and carbonate.  What's the dosage?

I use 1 tsp in 1/2 cup of water. I let it “bloom” at room temp for about 15 minutes before heating it to 150-160F in the microwave. I think I might use more than most but it works for me.

I decide to make a NEIPA clear. It took a couple of extra days but worked like a charm.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 02:57:37 AM by goschman »
On Tap/Bottled: Haze for Daze IPA, G Pils, Maibock, Watermelon Cider         

Fermenting: Kolsch
Up Next: Summer Ale, Gose

Offline Robert

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1540
    • View Profile
Re: Clarifying agents
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2018, 03:01:02 AM »
I use whirlfloc and gelatin after cold crashing for a couple of days. Never had an issue getting 34/70 very clear very quickly.

I have switched to S189 which gives me a little more problems...

I'll be transferring a Pils to lagering next week. Used Irish moss as usual in the kettle. Maybe I'll give gelatin a try in cold storage, then jump kegs and carbonate.  What's the dosage?

I use 1 tsp in 1/2 cup of water. I let it “bloom” at room temp for about 15 minutes before heating it to 150-160F in the microwave. I think I might use more than most but it works for me.

That sounds simple. I used to boil water, then bring it down to 160 and add pre-bloomed gel.  Guess it might reduce 02 that way.  Anybody have a dose in g/gallon?  And is there any difference between racking beer onto gelatin and adding gelatin to racked beer?
Rob
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.