Author Topic: Double Mash  (Read 4464 times)

Online Robert

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Re: Double Mash
« Reply #90 on: April 16, 2018, 12:58:41 PM »
Erockrph talked about having done something like that fifty or so posts ago to get a well attenuated big beer.
That's who I got it from
Can't remember, though, if he was changing the pH to optimize the different enzymes in each mash.  That's an interesting idea.  He referenced, IIRC, an old thread I never found. I'm still toying with the idea of a Doppelbock, just to learn something.   Disincentive is, I'm not big into big beers. This could make for an interestingly different one.  And applying this to a normal gravity beer is definitely more food for thought.
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Offline Big Monk

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Re: Double Mash
« Reply #91 on: April 16, 2018, 12:59:11 PM »
Reverse step mash, or recoction?

Double Mash as you would a big beer, but less volume. Then dilute to desired prevail volume and gravity

I say don’t change a thing except target preboil gravity. No dilution required. So do the same thing as you do for the big beers but with less grain. At least that’s how I’d want to do it for a Low Oxygen double mash. I’d pre-treat the water, infuse, cap, runoff, treat the first wort with more antioxidants, then re-infuse.
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Offline Big Monk

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Re: Double Mash
« Reply #92 on: April 16, 2018, 01:01:51 PM »
Erockrph talked about having done something like that fifty or so posts ago to get a well attenuated big beer.
That's who I got it from
Can't remember, though, if he was changing the pH to optimize the different enzymes in each mash.  That's an interesting idea.  He referenced, IIRC, an old thread I never found. I'm still toying with the idea of a Doppelbock, just to learn something.   Disincentive is, I'm not big into big beers. This could make for an interestingly different one.  And applying this to a normal gravity beer is definitely more food for thought.

This is an idea I’ve been hitting on with infusion step mashing. Essentially the infusions raise the pH, so if you were stepping, you could target the β optimum as the initial test pH and it would rise into α optimum by default.

I like the idea of 2 separate infusions better, because it allows for more control and consistency then the educated guesswork of adding infusions.
“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit.” Aristotle

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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Double Mash
« Reply #93 on: April 16, 2018, 05:22:45 PM »
I am intrigued by the second mash at the beta temps and how the beta enzymes will react on the prior alpha mashed wort.  Then perhaps a second step mash from there at alpha temps and mash out.
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Online Robert

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Re: Double Mash
« Reply #94 on: April 16, 2018, 05:39:08 PM »
I am intrigued by the second mash at the beta temps and how the beta enzymes will react on the prior alpha mashed wort.  Then perhaps a second step mash from there at alpha temps and mash out.
Somewhere way back in the thread I referenced a couple of sections in Kunze noting special German mash processes taking advantage of this idea, providing fully gelatinized material for beta to work on.  They tend to do it by cooling a hotter portion of mash (already stepped up) with a cooler one pulled earlier (then stepping up again,) but this seems an easier approach.  Anyway, the opportunities you have for restructuring the mash program, and the goals you might achieve, are similar. Have look at K.

EDIT A specific use of this process in German brewing is to maximize maltose production in wheat beers, in turn increasing the amount of banana ester produced by yeast. So there's one possible application of double mashing in a normal gravity beer.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 05:46:08 PM by Robert »
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Double Mash
« Reply #95 on: April 16, 2018, 09:04:55 PM »
A bit more food for thought to throw into the discussion. If your second mash temp is low enough (145F or under) you will not only get Beta activity, but limit dextrinase activity as well. Normally limit dextrinase is out of play at even low single-infusion mash temps, but you can probably eke out a few more percent attenuation if you're looking for it without needing sugar additions.
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Online klickitat jim

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Re: Double Mash
« Reply #96 on: May 06, 2018, 09:26:13 PM »
I had kegged the latest iteration of my Imperial Stout and the American Barleywine I made. Then got busy and never had the time to bottle. I was going to do that today but out of laziness I decided to clean and sanitize my kegerator and just throw them on tap.

The 2nd iteration of the Imperial Stout is great. Just the right amount of everything and silkie smooth.

The Barleywine is a mind blow. At 11% it drinks like an 8%. Veeeeery dangerous. I suppose some might say it needs more bitterness but I really like it just the way it is.

I would love it if some courageous soul, with temp control and oxygen, would volunteer to brew these, exactly as I did. I'd like to see that it's repeatable and not just some fluke that I'm experiencing.

After 3 of these with consistent results, I'm ready to declare that you don't need sugar or long boils to go big and not finish cloyingly sweet. I'm also ready to declare that, if you have oxygen and accurate temp control, you don't need a bucket of yeast to properly ferment high gravity beers. A 1L active starter will handle any ale up to 1.110 OG.

Any serious takers who would like to try this out, I'd be glad to share the full details. Di/RO build so there's very little variation.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 09:31:42 PM by klickitat jim »

Offline jimmykx250

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Re: Double Mash
« Reply #97 on: May 07, 2018, 09:00:19 AM »
I had kegged the latest iteration of my Imperial Stout and the American Barleywine I made. Then got busy and never had the time to bottle. I was going to do that today but out of laziness I decided to clean and sanitize my kegerator and just throw them on tap.

The 2nd iteration of the Imperial Stout is great. Just the right amount of everything and silkie smooth.

The Barleywine is a mind blow. At 11% it drinks like an 8%. Veeeeery dangerous. I suppose some might say it needs more bitterness but I really like it just the way it is.

I would love it if some courageous soul, with temp control and oxygen, would volunteer to brew these, exactly as I did. I'd like to see that it's repeatable and not just some fluke that I'm experiencing.

After 3 of these with consistent results, I'm ready to declare that you don't need sugar or long boils to go big and not finish cloyingly sweet. I'm also ready to declare that, if you have oxygen and accurate temp control, you don't need a bucket of yeast to properly ferment high gravity beers. A 1L active starter will handle any ale up to 1.110 OG.

Any serious takers who would like to try this out, I'd be glad to share the full details. Di/RO build so there's very little variation.
Jim
Im a bag brewer. I do build up from distilled. As far as temp control not a fridge but a large plastic bucket that my 6 gal fits into with room and i then alternate frozen water bottles (3) morning and evening. I do have a probe that  keep in the beer to monitor temp of the beer it self. Let me know!
Jimmykx250

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Re: Double Mash
« Reply #98 on: May 07, 2018, 05:13:53 PM »
I had kegged the latest iteration of my Imperial Stout and the American Barleywine I made. Then got busy and never had the time to bottle. I was going to do that today but out of laziness I decided to clean and sanitize my kegerator and just throw them on tap.

The 2nd iteration of the Imperial Stout is great. Just the right amount of everything and silkie smooth.

The Barleywine is a mind blow. At 11% it drinks like an 8%. Veeeeery dangerous. I suppose some might say it needs more bitterness but I really like it just the way it is.

I would love it if some courageous soul, with temp control and oxygen, would volunteer to brew these, exactly as I did. I'd like to see that it's repeatable and not just some fluke that I'm experiencing.

After 3 of these with consistent results, I'm ready to declare that you don't need sugar or long boils to go big and not finish cloyingly sweet. I'm also ready to declare that, if you have oxygen and accurate temp control, you don't need a bucket of yeast to properly ferment high gravity beers. A 1L active starter will handle any ale up to 1.110 OG.

Any serious takers who would like to try this out, I'd be glad to share the full details. Di/RO build so there's very little variation.
Jim
Im a bag brewer. I do build up from distilled. As far as temp control not a fridge but a large plastic bucket that my 6 gal fits into with room and i then alternate frozen water bottles (3) morning and evening. I do have a probe that  keep in the beer to monitor temp of the beer it self. Let me know!
Do you have Brewer's Friend?

Let's see if this works...

Link to Full Monty
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/617251/-full-monty-3-6-18

Link to Neck Tattoo
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/596794/-neck-tattoo-3-5-18

Feel free to ask and questions...
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 05:25:22 PM by klickitat jim »

Offline jimmykx250

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Re: Double Mash
« Reply #99 on: May 07, 2018, 05:26:31 PM »
Yep on brewers friend. I will look at it.
Jimmykx250

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Re: Double Mash
« Reply #100 on: May 07, 2018, 05:52:54 PM »
Yep on brewers friend. I will look at it.
Your system will be slightly different on losses obviously... I'm more interested in the quality of the wort and fermentation than some attempt to exactly duplicate the beer. So you can target OG or you can target Volume, either way. With your BIAB it ought to be easier, but the key is the mash temps. 1st mash 160F for 45 min (or full conversion) then pull the grains and hit strike temp for a 145F 2nd mash for 90 min with the other half of the grain bill.

Offline jimmykx250

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Re: Double Mash
« Reply #101 on: May 08, 2018, 09:13:24 AM »
Jim-
Im in. I will buy the grain for this on my next grain bill buy. I will be in touch when brew day is closer. Ive never done a split mash like this. Look forward to this.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 09:16:15 AM by jimmykx250 »
Jimmykx250

Offline yso191

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Re: Double Mash
« Reply #102 on: May 08, 2018, 01:17:07 PM »
I would love it if some courageous soul, with temp control and oxygen, would volunteer to brew these, exactly as I did. I'd like to see that it's repeatable and not just some fluke that I'm experiencing.

Any serious takers who would like to try this out, I'd be glad to share the full details. Di/RO build so there's very little variation.

I'm your huckleberry.

I'm planning a stout for my next brew anyway.  I have a lager in the fermenter now... I'll be in touch when I have a window.
Steve
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Online klickitat jim

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Re: Double Mash
« Reply #103 on: May 08, 2018, 02:16:21 PM »
Cool deal guys. Looking forward to it

Online klickitat jim

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Re: Double Mash
« Reply #104 on: July 19, 2018, 09:21:55 AM »
Bueller... Bueller...

Brewed January
Shipped March, I think...

Now the challenge is on my bottling sanitation more than anything. Especially the one I sent to Drew, which bounced around the California coast for about ten days before it arrived.