[Wilbur]

Denny, my thought with this is experiments that change or inform how you brew. The boil/mash length ones are great examples.

In terms of the SO4/Cl ratio, I usually try and add as little as I can to hit my goal in BruN Water. I haven't played a whole lot with high vs. low minerals.

[Robert]

When I was just treating my municipal water, for pale lagers I was obliged to have sulfate in the 40-60 range and chloride 150+, sodium around 40 and Mg 15. I did not like the results.  Dull malt and Hop flavors, cloying palate.  Since I've been building RO, I've tried no sulfate, chloride ~50, no Mg or Na.  That beer is cleaner, brighter flavors, but still without the really crisp snap I'm looking for in a Pils.   Couple of batches in the pipeline using the Bru'n Water Jever profile (sulfate 82, Cl 33, Mg 2 and Na 10) and those beers seem to be nailing it.  So I've reduced the total mineral content from where I started, but flipped the ratio, and the impact seems profound.  This is hardly experimental data, but enough food for thought to warrent experiments maybe.

[hopfenundmalz]

Dave, I've done the decoction thing, as I'm sure you know.....

I'm coming around to your point of view actually, but still want to make sure based on some real first-hand experience.  If I wasn't such a friggin $hitty brewer, then I wouldn't have to keep repeating the xbmt!

Dude, I SO know!  I'm involved in an experiment to see if wort protein content plays a bigger role in hop utilization that boil gravity.  I needed 4 different test batches to do that.  I'm on my 7th.  And I may just start over again.

That is one o wanted to do some day, but since I am lazy, glad you are doing it!

[hopfenundmalz]

When I was just treating my municipal water, for pale lagers I was obliged to have sulfate in the 40-60 range and chloride 150+, sodium around 40 and Mg 15. I did not like the results.  Dull malt and Hop flavors, cloying palate.  Since I've been building RO, I've tried no sulfate, chloride ~50, no Mg or Na.  That beer is cleaner, brighter flavors, but still without the really crisp snap I'm looking for in a Pils.   Couple of batches in the pipeline using the Bru'n Water Jever profile (sulfate 82, Cl 33, Mg 2 and Na 10) and those beers seem to be nailing it.  So I've reduced the total mineral content from where I started, but flipped the ratio, and the impact seems profound.  This is hardly experimental data, but enough food for thought to warrent experiments maybe.

Kai has a Pilsner water profile on his page that makes crisp dry Pilsners like those from the north of Germany. Many of the ones from the South are softer in the finish, so backing the SO4 off helps that.

[klickitat jim]

One I'm glad that I did a few years back...

One liter, oxygenated, no stir, starters pitched as soon as active to oxygenated wort. Compared to dry, hydrated dry, smacked pack, or stir plate decanted, I have had nothing but reliable success for about 4 years now. (Maybe 3yrs.. lost track) And I've found the same success wether it's 6 gallons of any ale, or lager, or gravity. So far I've experienced success up to 1.110 OG with just a 1L active starter. I've not tested the volume limit but I would not be surprised if it worked flawlessly up to 10 gallons, though I would probably just increase my ratio to 2L if I was worried about it.

Am I saying it's the only, or best way, absolutely not. Does your beer suck if you do some other method? Nope! Am I saying it's easy, time efficient and reliable? Yup! And more people ought to test it out.

I have 2 stir plates I haven't used since, but for mixing agar into 5% slant medium.

[TANSTAAFB]

I have my split batch experiment on tap now! 12 gallon batch split 3 ways. WLP644 Saccharomyces Bruxellensis Trois, WLP590 French Saison, and US-05 as a clean control. All freaking delicious, all different!

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[Frankenbrew]

One I'm glad that I did a few years back...

One liter, oxygenated, no stir, starters pitched as soon as active to oxygenated wort. Compared to dry, hydrated dry, smacked pack, or stir plate decanted, I have had nothing but reliable success for about 4 years now. (Maybe 3yrs.. lost track) And I've found the same success wether it's 6 gallons of any ale, or lager, or gravity. So far I've experienced success up to 1.110 OG with just a 1L active starter. I've not tested the volume limit but I would not be surprised if it worked flawlessly up to 10 gallons, though I would probably just increase my ratio to 2L if I was worried about it.

Am I saying it's the only, or best way, absolutely not. Does your beer suck if you do some other method? Nope! Am I saying it's easy, time efficient and reliable? Yup! And more people ought to test it out.

I have 2 stir plates I haven't used since, but for mixing agar into 5% slant medium.

I agree and concur on this! This "James Bond" or "Shaken not Stirred" method is one of the best experiments I have ever tried. Success, success, success! Maybe, as Jim says, not the only way, but it works really well.

[banjo-guy]

I know this is old news to a lot of you.
 I compared US-05 to Wyeast 1056. I've always assumed that 05 was a  "clean fermenting yeast"  but discovered that I really didn't like the 05 as much as the 1056. I could taste the peach flavor that people told me in the 05 but that  I doubted was there. Both were fermented at 65 degrees.
Now I don't use 05 anymore.

[charlie]

I have been brewing all grain for almost 10 years, and have run a number of experiments.

1. Brewing an APA using pretty much any base malt except American 2-row, and various percentages of these malts with American 2-row.
2. Adding specialty malts such as Special B, Honey, Aromatic, Melanoidin, or Biscuit at 5 to 10% of the grist to a standardized APA recipe to see (or taste) the results.
3. Using Crystal 20, 40 and 60 to achieve my preferred SRM in the aforementioned standardized APA recipe.
4. A long series of SMASH brews to evaluate the character of a bunch of hops!
5. Using RO water with added minerals to achieve the "Ideal" APA/IPA water.
6. Capturing and brewing with such yeast as Heady Topper, Bells 2HA and Parish Ghost in split batches to see if they actually made a difference.

Brewing is a very large area of study, and the rabbit hole goes as deep as you want to go.

Charlie

[TANSTAAFB]

I have been brewing all grain for almost 10 years, and have run a number of experiments.

1. Brewing an APA using pretty much any base malt except American 2-row, and various percentages of these malts with American 2-row.
2. Adding specialty malts such as Special B, Honey, Aromatic, Melanoidin, or Biscuit at 5 to 10% of the grist to a standardized APA recipe to see (or taste) the results.
3. Using Crystal 20, 40 and 60 to achieve my preferred SRM in the aforementioned standardized APA recipe.
4. A long series of SMASH brews to evaluate the character of a bunch of hops!
5. Using RO water with added minerals to achieve the "Ideal" APA/IPA water.
6. Capturing and brewing with such yeast as Heady Topper, Bells 2HA and Parish Ghost in split batches to see if they actually made a difference.

Brewing is a very large area of study, and the rabbit hole goes as deep as you want to go.

Charlie

Curious as to what you've learned! What water profile do you prefer to build from RO for an APA? What is your favorite grist? Hops? Does the yeast make a big difference? You've spent a lot of time trying to find that perfect balance...what's your favorite recipe?

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[Bilsch]

No, I can't say I've tried that yet exactly.  I have, however, mashed almost every batch for only 40-45 minutes for the past 12 years.  Maybe THAT is why my beer is so $hitty on average! 

Sorry to hear that Dave.
Just wondering though if your reading and following a lot of brewing “science” that recommends short and shoddy and tells you nothing matters and you still make beer you’re not happy with, then possibly the next thing to do is try pushing your envelope past standard homebrew dogma.
Just a crazy thought but that’s what helped me the most.

[dmtaylor]

No, I can't say I've tried that yet exactly.  I have, however, mashed almost every batch for only 40-45 minutes for the past 12 years.  Maybe THAT is why my beer is so $hitty on average! 

Sorry to hear that Dave.
Just wondering though if your reading and following a lot of brewing “science” that recommends short and shoddy and tells you nothing matters and you still make beer you’re not happy with, then possibly the next thing to do is try pushing your envelope past standard homebrew dogma.
Just a crazy thought but that’s what helped me the most.

You misunderstand.  I do my own thing.  I don't care what anyone else is doing.  I read and learn lots of stuff, but I myself am a scientist.  I run all my own experiments.  I experiment with almost every batch.  Maybe THAT is why my beer is so $hitty on average.  I believe in my own experiences more than anything I read from random guys on the interwebs.  I make all my own decisions.  Are they all the "right" ones?  Anyone who tastes my beer can judge that for themselves.  I am also my own worst critic.  The objective evidence suggests I am a pretty dang great brewer.  But I know that isn't really true.  I know where I need to improve and generally know how to improve.  I also have opinions about what I do NOT need to do to improve.  Are those decisions the right ones?  See previous sentences.

[Robert]

^^^^^^
Yeah! 

[denny]

I know this is old news to a lot of you.
 I compared US-05 to Wyeast 1056. I've always assumed that 05 was a  "clean fermenting yeast"  but discovered that I really didn't like the 05 as much as the 1056. I could taste the peach flavor that people told me in the 05 but that  I doubted was there. Both were fermented at 65 degrees.
Now I don't use 05 anymore.

We did that at Experimental Brewing a couple years ago.  If you like, you can check out the results at experimentalbrew.com.

[TANSTAAFB]

I know this is old news to a lot of you.
 I compared US-05 to Wyeast 1056. I've always assumed that 05 was a  "clean fermenting yeast"  but discovered that I really didn't like the 05 as much as the 1056. I could taste the peach flavor that people told me in the 05 but that  I doubted was there. Both were fermented at 65 degrees.
Now I don't use 05 anymore.

We did that at Experimental Brewing a couple years ago.  If you like, you can check out the results at experimentalbrew.com.

Thanks Denny, I use 05 almost exclusively for my "clean" ale yeast--dry yeast is so much easier to deal with-- so I'll definitely be checking that out! What are the Cliff's notes? I've never noticed anything off but I have a crap palate!

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