Author Topic: How to differentiate mash from sparge in Water calculators  (Read 148 times)

Offline BrewBama

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How to differentiate mash from sparge in Water calculators
« on: February 03, 2018, 12:18:00 AM »
So... I have been looking at a cpl water calculators and am interested in mash vs sparge mineral additions. If I mash with 3.5 gal at 152*F, then mash out with ~2 gal at near boiling to bring the grain bed to 170*F, then batch sparge with 2.5 gal, how is this handled in the ‘usual suspect’ water calculators?  Wouldn’t pH change from one step to the other? I don’t see these options in these calculators. ...and what about step mashes with infusion additions?

...and I’ve noticed one calculator in particular recommends ~4x the amount of acid addition for pH adjustment as the others. Weird.


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Offline narcout

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Re: How to differentiate mash from sparge in Water calculators
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2018, 12:46:36 AM »
If I mash with 3.5 gal at 152*F, then mash out with ~2 gal at near boiling to bring the grain bed to 170*F, then batch sparge with 2.5 gal, how is this handled in the ‘usual suspect’ water calculators?

There is a cell in Bru'n Water that allows you to add all minerals to the mash.  It is cell M24 on the water adjustment tab.

Wouldn’t pH change from one step to the other? I don’t see these options in these calculators. ...and what about step mashes with infusion additions?

I like to add all my minerals to the mash and none to the infusion addition (currently, I don't sparge but do use an infusion of boiling water to raise temp from 148/149° to 162/163°).  This way, you don't need to use as much acid malt (or whatever you are using to acidify) in the mash.

My experience in using distilled water with no mineral additions for the second infusion is that it will cause the pH to rise slightly.  Below are some examples from my last few batches, using 2.5 gallons of boiling distilled water for the second infusion.

Tripel: 5.31 to 5.41
Dubbel: 5.35 to 5.42
Saison: 5.36 to 5.43
APA: 5.3 to 5.34
Belgian Pale: 5.11 to 5.21 (first batch with acid malt; it was stronger than I expected)
British Bitter: 5.27 to 5.37
Saison: 5.22 to 5.33
Belgian Single: 5.31 to 5.4

That can be good if you want to mash at a lower pH and then bring it up a bit before the boil.  Otherwise, you can acidify your infusion and sparge water so that the pH stays constant.

I don't know if any of the popular calculators will help with calculating the pH adjustment at each step, though Big Monk's recently released low-oxygen spreadsheet might.  It just came out, and I haven't had time to play around with it yet. 
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Offline Bob357

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Re: How to differentiate mash from sparge in Water calculators
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2018, 12:55:10 AM »
If I did multi-step mashes with batch sparging, I'd just treat all of my brewing water up front. I do either BIAB full volume or single infusion with batch sparge, so thing are a little more simple.
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Offline Big Monk

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Re: How to differentiate mash from sparge in Water calculators
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2018, 01:41:25 AM »
If I mash with 3.5 gal at 152*F, then mash out with ~2 gal at near boiling to bring the grain bed to 170*F, then batch sparge with 2.5 gal, how is this handled in the ‘usual suspect’ water calculators?

There is a cell in Bru'n Water that allows you to add all minerals to the mash.  It is cell M24 on the water adjustment tab.

Wouldn’t pH change from one step to the other? I don’t see these options in these calculators. ...and what about step mashes with infusion additions?

I like to add all my minerals to the mash and none to the infusion addition (currently, I don't sparge but do use an infusion of boiling water to raise temp from 148/149° to 162/163°).  This way, you don't need to use as much acid malt (or whatever you are using to acidify) in the mash.

My experience in using distilled water with no mineral additions for the second infusion is that it will cause the pH to rise slightly.  Below are some examples from my last few batches, using 2.5 gallons of boiling distilled water for the second infusion.

Tripel: 5.31 to 5.41
Dubbel: 5.35 to 5.42
Saison: 5.36 to 5.43
APA: 5.3 to 5.34
Belgian Pale: 5.11 to 5.21 (first batch with acid malt; it was stronger than I expected)
British Bitter: 5.27 to 5.37
Saison: 5.22 to 5.33
Belgian Single: 5.31 to 5.4

That can be good if you want to mash at a lower pH and then bring it up a bit before the boil.  Otherwise, you can acidify your infusion and sparge water so that the pH stays constant.

I don't know if any of the popular calculators will help with calculating the pH adjustment at each step, though Big Monk's recently released low-oxygen spreadsheet might.  It just came out, and I haven't had time to play around with it yet.

Yup. There are cells for mineral acid adjustment at each step and your data factored in prominently to the algorithm. It also takes into account heat loss. I’d consider it a β calculation right now but I’m converting back to cooler brewing for a while to make sure it gets fully vetted.
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Offline BrewBama

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How to differentiate mash from sparge in Water calculators
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2018, 01:52:43 AM »
I need to dig in a bit more. Thx!


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