Author Topic: How is Munich malt made?  (Read 673 times)

Offline The Beerery

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Re: How is Munich malt made?
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2018, 04:10:40 PM »

EDIT  In the article, Narziss complains that modern Dunkels often have far too strong a roast malt flavor!

I agree, Schwarz should have roast, dunkel should not IMO. My personal Dunkel does not contain roast. Sinamar only, which with a soft boil, lends the perfect amount of roast flavor..
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Offline Robert

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Re: How is Munich malt made?
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2018, 04:15:29 PM »

EDIT  In the article, Narziss complains that modern Dunkels often have far too strong a roast malt flavor!

I agree, Schwarz should have roast, dunkel should not IMO. My personal Dunkel does not contain roast. Sinamar only, which with a soft boil, lends the perfect amount of roast flavor..

A nice demonstration of excessive vs. Less jarring levels of roast character in Dunkels, available at your megamart, is Warsteiner vs. Hofbräu.
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: How is Munich malt made?
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2018, 03:02:54 AM »
Yeah, I love the taste of Munich but it only has a diastatic power of 40-50 Lintner depending on which kind you get. Adding a bit of highly modified malt will help your conversion a lot.
40-50 linter is about what British pale ale malt has, 35 is plenty to convert a mash. Moreover, it has been 50+ years since you could find a Munich with  questionable enzymes (note conversion times on spec sheets are in line with other base malts), just like Pils that needs a protein rest; these are myths perpetuated in the homebrew community. Decoction is almost a unicorn even with Dunkels, but would be the only place Pils would be appropriate; not for the enzyme package with available malts, but to LIGHTEN the color and flavor.  So for homebrewers, the takeaway is, go Munich and color and have no fear!

EDIT  Jeff, I wonder if the brewer you talked to was also influenced by tradition more than the current state of materials?

He is a degreed brewer. His brewery is known for a Dunkel. I have been under the impression that traditional Dunkels were all dark Munich and decocted, if you go back far enough, before Pils malt.

There is a 19th century Dunkel recipe in the Jan-Feb 2018 New Brewer that uses:

45.5 % Munich
35% Vienna
10% CaraMunich I
8% Weyermann Special W
1.5% Carafa Special I

Traditional or modern? The article as authored by Horst Dornbusch and Thomas Kraus-Weyermann. That last guy might be the authority. I still need to look up Special W.
Special W is something like Special B. One is Weyernmann and the other is Castle.


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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: How is Munich malt made?
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2018, 03:04:22 AM »

EDIT  In the article, Narziss complains that modern Dunkels often have far too strong a roast malt flavor!

I agree, Schwarz should have roast, dunkel should not IMO. My personal Dunkel does not contain roast. Sinamar only, which with a soft boil, lends the perfect amount of roast flavor..
Careful with Sinamar. If you use too much, it will taste like ash tray.


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Root beer

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: How is Munich malt made?
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2018, 03:23:03 AM »
Yeah, I love the taste of Munich but it only has a diastatic power of 40-50 Lintner depending on which kind you get. Adding a bit of highly modified malt will help your conversion a lot.
40-50 linter is about what British pale ale malt has, 35 is plenty to convert a mash. Moreover, it has been 50+ years since you could find a Munich with  questionable enzymes (note conversion times on spec sheets are in line with other base malts), just like Pils that needs a protein rest; these are myths perpetuated in the homebrew community. Decoction is almost a unicorn even with Dunkels, but would be the only place Pils would be appropriate; not for the enzyme package with available malts, but to LIGHTEN the color and flavor.  So for homebrewers, the takeaway is, go Munich and color and have no fear!

EDIT  Jeff, I wonder if the brewer you talked to was also influenced by tradition more than the current state of materials?

He is a degreed brewer. His brewery is known for a Dunkel. I have been under the impression that traditional Dunkels were all dark Munich and decocted, if you go back far enough, before Pils malt.

There is a 19th century Dunkel recipe in the Jan-Feb 2018 New Brewer that uses:

45.5 % Munich
35% Vienna
10% CaraMunich I
8% Weyermann Special W
1.5% Carafa Special I

Traditional or modern? The article as authored by Horst Dornbusch and Thomas Kraus-Weyermann. That last guy might be the authority. I still need to look up Special W.
Special W is something like Special B. One is Weyernmann and the other is Castle.


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Offline mabrungard

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Re: How is Munich malt made?
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2018, 01:37:35 PM »
I agree, Schwarz should have roast, dunkel should not IMO. My personal Dunkel does not contain roast.

Schwarzbier has similar requirements to Dunkel in that NEITHER are supposed to have any burnt flavor or character. Both styles make mention of low or minor 'chocolate' notes in the flavor, but they shouldn't be burnt or harsh....or prominent. They should exist as nuances in my opinion.

I recently finished off a Dunkel that employed a couple of ounces of Weyermann Chocolate Wheat and the result was quite good. Just a hint of chocolate in the finish...especially when the beer warmed.

By the way, going from 2 oz to 3 oz in a 5 gal batch of Dunkel definitely crosses the line in my experience...nuance to overt.
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Offline Aksarben

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Re: How is Munich malt made?
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2018, 05:01:55 AM »
I'm getting an RO unit installed in our house as our water is crap (iron and sulfur , along with high calcium hardness - SW Michigan, so in  using Munich malt to make my Munich Dunkel, and making a recent Dry Irish Stout, I bought some RO water locally and added about 3g of Calcium chloride and about 2 g of gypsum to the total batch of 4 gallons mash of a Dry Irish Stout I have in the fermenter.  Using this idea for both Stout and Dunkel a good idea?  Would it be beneficial to have water tested after the RO install to see the actual number, or are most RO waters, pretty much the same?
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: How is Munich malt made?
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2018, 01:18:54 PM »
Using RO for Dunkel and Dry Stout is OK. In the case of Dunkel, the roast addition is so small that it doesn't drive pH down excessively. In the case of Dry Stout, the pH depression is desirable, but you don't want the mashing pH to be low for most of the mashing duration. That will cause excessive proteolysis and that can destroy head and body. Adding the roast at the end of the mash is a good technique for keeping the mash pH at normal level for most of the duration and then crashing it at the end.
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Offline Aksarben

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Re: How is Munich malt made?
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2018, 05:43:58 PM »
Using RO for Dunkel and Dry Stout is OK. In the case of Dunkel, the roast addition is so small that it doesn't drive pH down excessively. In the case of Dry Stout, the pH depression is desirable, but you don't want the mashing pH to be low for most of the mashing duration. That will cause excessive proteolysis and that can destroy head and body. Adding the roast at the end of the mash is a good technique for keeping the mash pH at normal level for most of the duration and then crashing it at the end.

Thanks Martin!  That's about what I did with my Dry Irish Stout. Even though I used Munich malt, Melanoidin malt, and about 4 % acidulated malt, I separated out the Roasted Barely and steeped it in a nylon bag on the stove with near boiling hot water, squeezed it out, and added it at the end of the mashing period (broth) to the main mash.  I figured that the very dark roast barley of that much would drive the pH down too low, so added the dark "tea" at the very end of the mash period.  Lautered very nice considering I had added 1/4 cup of Chocolate Flavor Malt-O-Meal and some Cheerios (but added in a good amount of rice hulls).
Vernon

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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: How is Munich malt made?
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2018, 06:59:29 PM »
The late roast add is advicated by many knowledgable brewers, including  Gordon Strong.  Your twist with Maltomeal and cheerios is novel!  I know a highly medaled homebrewer who makes oatmeal for his stout and adds it to the mash after the mash is nearing full conversion.  His statement was why not add the exact flavor you want to achieve?  Makes sense to me.
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