Author Topic: Quest for the Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe  (Read 7138 times)

Offline The Beerery

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2018, 11:30:42 PM »
Germans don’t use hard water.  Ever.   


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Offline Robert

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2018, 11:40:06 PM »
Yep, I've been in pursuit of the perfect Pils forever.  I've brewed the perfect one a lot of times -- and as soon as I clean up from brewing I have an idea how to tweak it.  And once in a while blow the while thing up!  I always say, if I ever really got a beer perfect, what would I do for the rest of my life?  ;D
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2018, 11:44:24 PM »
^ Pretentious asshat alert...  Good for you for winning a medal... I'm a home Brewer dude.  Don't be a dick.  I created this recipe in hopes of saving someone else the intense amount of time in research I did.  BTW I live at an elevation of 4500 ft. So I do need to boil for extended periods, thanks though.  Also, now that you've got me all riled up, I have concluded that you are in fact the troll here.  Way to be a dickhead. Keep winning medals no one cares about but you.

I'm sorry you got upset by Martin's post but I can assure you that he was not trying to "be a dick" and I can also assure you that he has forgotten more about water than you and I know together. He's an expert in the field, and is a genuine "water engineer". And I have met him personally several time and I can completely assure you he is one of the nicest and smartest guys you would ever have a pleasure to meet.

Offline Brewtopalonian

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2018, 11:46:05 PM »
Thanks Major.  I'm pretty sure we're over it now.  Got the clarification on his intentions in his post and feel better about it now.
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Offline hackrsackr

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2018, 11:54:42 PM »
Germans don’t use hard water.  Ever.   


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Is Dortmund in a different country?



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Offline Robert

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2018, 12:01:41 AM »
Germans don’t use hard water.  Ever.   


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Is Dortmund in a different country?



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They just don't use the water as-is, that is, while it's still hard. They've always been at the cutting edge of water treatment.  Adding and removing minerals is not against the Reinheitsgebot .  As long as the charges balance so that a water is _cosistent with_ the composition of a natural water supply, it doesnt have to _actually be_ a natural supply.  More proof that the RHG is just plain silly.
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Offline hackrsackr

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2018, 12:10:56 AM »
Germans don’t use hard water.  Ever.   


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Is Dortmund in a different country?



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They just don't use the water as-is, that is, while it's still hard. They've always been at the cutting edge of water treatment.  Adding and removing minerals is not against the Reinheitsgebot .  As long as the charges balance so that a water is _cosistent with_ the composition of a natural water supply, it doesnt have to _actually be_ a natural supply.  More proof that the RHG is just plain silly.

I agree wholeheartedly.

The water is still hard though, that was my point.

Not a fan of generalizations, that’s all.


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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2018, 12:15:54 AM »
Water with minerals is much different than hard water.  It’s not a generalization it’s literally in all the German brewing texts.  Hard water and pale beers don’t work. 


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Offline hackrsackr

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2018, 12:20:08 AM »
Not sure I follow the logic here...

Hardness is a measure of calcium and magnesium mineral content...
Are you referring to alkalinity?

Ever is a generalization... always!


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Offline Brewtopalonian

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2018, 12:25:43 AM »
okay guys, here's the deal: 

This is a photo of exactly what I did in beersmith.  I used the Salt Lake City water profile and adjusted it with those minerals you see there.  I do good? dunno, your call.  Beer tastes great though.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1RzQr1-2g23AxivBErZzLMBwqgZ3mo9LU
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Offline The Beerery

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Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2018, 12:29:49 AM »
Not sure I follow the logic here...

Hardness is a measure of calcium and magnesium mineral content...
Are you referring to alkalinity?

Ever is a generalization... always!


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Let me put it this way.  You show me a professional German brewery that brews with hard water (not Americans who claim to know Germany), and I shall retract my statement. 

I’ll see if I find anything in here. 



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« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 12:32:49 AM by The Beerery »
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Offline hackrsackr

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2018, 12:46:30 AM »
Aren’t you an American claiming to know Germany?


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Offline The Beerery

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Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2018, 12:53:36 AM »
Aren’t you an American claiming to know Germany?


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Indeed.  Hence why I said let’s get the brewery to answer.  I could very well be wrong, maybe all the professional German brewing literature, and the professionals I know over there use it and it’s all a farce. 

FYI I found nothing. 


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Offline Brewtopalonian

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2018, 01:01:06 AM »
did anyone check my screenshot?
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Offline The Beerery

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Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2018, 01:04:08 AM »
So to get the discussion back on track, I pride myself on my weissbier and it’s just like sitting in Munich in a Biergarten.
Did you have a goal for a commercial example? 
My favorite is W.  Hefe. 
What every one fails to realize is that weiss production is as precise as lager production. It's yeast dominated so people think they are easy to do because of all the phenolics of the yeast, but it's couldn't be more wrong. There are so many nuances to these beers.. Yeasty, phenolic, clove, banana, dough, lingering malt, sauergut, etc.  It's these same reasons why I feel every american version sucks and pales in comparison. You can't go off bottles either cause, because they are oxidized, and some of the flavors that come though are oxidized flavors, namely honey.

So what would I do if I was trying to reproduce W hefeweiss bier here at home??

Step 1 Low oxygen brewhouse.

60% Weyermann Wheat malz
35% Weyermann Barke Pils
5% Weyermann carahell

Step mash (non decoction on our scale due to oxidation).
30 minute rest at 114 (to enhance esters and clove)
then step up though beta
147 for 30-40
163 for 30
170-10

Do not adjust pH at all let it ride.
Soft water, I like 40ish ppm ca, 70cl, 20na.

Pristine wort preboil, soft boil 60minutes
a 60min addition of hallertau mittlefuh, to about 12-14ibu
Drop post boil pH to 5.1 with a dose of sauergut
hot and cold break separation
5ppm 02, 1 smack pack per 5g of 3068
Ferment at 68F (to enhance banana)
Spund or Krausen to 4 vols.

That will do you good. At least thats how I would (do) do it. 




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« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 01:09:27 AM by The Beerery »
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