Author Topic: Quest for the Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe  (Read 10303 times)

Offline KellerBrauer

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2018, 01:05:32 AM »
Wow!  Lots of hostility about a recipe.  For what it’s worth, I still plan on brewing the recipe as shown in this post. 

Also, for what it’s worth, I asked Martin many months ago if he would be interested in simply removing the color background from just the Instructions section of his spreadsheet so a person could print, and read, the instructions while learning and working the spreadsheet.  This would enable a nice clean printout without using tons of color ink.  Well, he never replied and has since sent out two upgrades, none of which included the instructions suitable for printing.  So, Point is, while I respect Martins work and his authority on the subject of Water, as a person interested in assisting fellow brewers, he leaves a great deal to be desired - at least in my eyes.  I too found his comments to be condescending and rude.

Regardless of what your authority or level of expertise, you should always treat others with the same respect you wish to be treated yourself.

Sorry for the rant.
Joliet, IL

All good things come to those who show patients and perseverance while maintaining a positive and progressive attitude. 😉

Offline hackrsackr

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2018, 01:18:18 AM »
Brewtalopian: looked at the screenshot, but it’s hard to assess your additions without the starting water profile. That said with your final numbers I’d venture a guess that you have a fairly high level of minerals in your source water.

Can I ask what the impetus was behind the water additions? Curious if you’ve ever made it without mineral additions.

I have relatively soft water, so I’ve always added calcium (hardness) to my mashes. 1g/gal works well for me, I feel like it gives a slightly better mouthfeel and roundness on the palate.


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Offline hackrsackr

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2018, 01:40:27 AM »
Beerery: I agree with you that most German beers are made with softened water. I just didn’t like the fact that someone shared something and right away people are telling him he’s categorically wrong (I know it happens to you all the time as well.) None of us have tasted this beer, maybe he found a better way, who knows.

Oh and how does the rest at 114 promote esters (genuinely asking?)


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Offline Big Monk

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2018, 01:44:39 AM »
Wow!  Lots of hostility about a recipe.  For what it’s worth, I still plan on brewing the recipe as shown in this post. 

Also, for what it’s worth, I asked Martin many months ago if he would be interested in simply removing the color background from just the Instructions section of his spreadsheet so a person could print, and read, the instructions while learning and working the spreadsheet.  This would enable a nice clean printout without using tons of color ink.  Well, he never replied and has since sent out two upgrades, none of which included the instructions suitable for printing.  So, Point is, while I respect Martins work and his authority on the subject of Water, as a person interested in assisting fellow brewers, he leaves a great deal to be desired - at least in my eyes.  I too found his comments to be condescending and rude.

Regardless of what your authority or level of expertise, you should always treat others with the same respect you wish to be treated yourself.

Sorry for the rant.

Why don’t you just print it in black and white?
“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit.” Aristotle

"Messieurs, c’est les microbes qui auront le dernier mot." Louis Pasteur

Check out Low Oxygen Brewing at http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/

Offline Robert

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2018, 01:45:49 AM »
Beerery: I agree with you that most German beers are made with softened water. I just didn’t like the fact that someone shared something and right away people are telling him he’s categorically wrong (I know it happens to you all the time as well.) None of us have tasted this beer, maybe he found a better way, who knows.

Oh and how does the rest at 114 promote esters (genuinely asking?)


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On promotion of banana ester (isoamyl acetate) see my reply #7.  By the way this is either the way the Germans do it, or Kunze is an American who thinks he knows Germany. ;)

Same rest promotes ferulic acid formation, which yeast turns to 4VG (clove.)
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

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Offline KellerBrauer

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2018, 01:51:12 AM »
Wow!  Lots of hostility about a recipe.  For what it’s worth, I still plan on brewing the recipe as shown in this post. 

Also, for what it’s worth, I asked Martin many months ago if he would be interested in simply removing the color background from just the Instructions section of his spreadsheet so a person could print, and read, the instructions while learning and working the spreadsheet.  This would enable a nice clean printout without using tons of color ink.  Well, he never replied and has since sent out two upgrades, none of which included the instructions suitable for printing.  So, Point is, while I respect Martins work and his authority on the subject of Water, as a person interested in assisting fellow brewers, he leaves a great deal to be desired - at least in my eyes.  I too found his comments to be condescending and rude.

Regardless of what your authority or level of expertise, you should always treat others with the same respect you wish to be treated yourself.

Sorry for the rant.

Why don’t you just print it in black and white?

Great question. Because the color background would print gray. The color background doesn’t need to be there. White background with black text prints well. Good question, glad you pointed that out!  Alternatively, the instructions can be sent as a separate document ready for print. That’s easy enough.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 01:55:10 AM by KellerBrauer »
Joliet, IL

All good things come to those who show patients and perseverance while maintaining a positive and progressive attitude. 😉

Offline hackrsackr

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2018, 01:52:49 AM »
That’s for that other mash though, a standard mash won’t have maltose at that low temp.


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Offline Big Monk

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2018, 01:53:53 AM »
Wow!  Lots of hostility about a recipe.  For what it’s worth, I still plan on brewing the recipe as shown in this post. 

Also, for what it’s worth, I asked Martin many months ago if he would be interested in simply removing the color background from just the Instructions section of his spreadsheet so a person could print, and read, the instructions while learning and working the spreadsheet.  This would enable a nice clean printout without using tons of color ink.  Well, he never replied and has since sent out two upgrades, none of which included the instructions suitable for printing.  So, Point is, while I respect Martins work and his authority on the subject of Water, as a person interested in assisting fellow brewers, he leaves a great deal to be desired - at least in my eyes.  I too found his comments to be condescending and rude.

Regardless of what your authority or level of expertise, you should always treat others with the same respect you wish to be treated yourself.

Sorry for the rant.

Why don’t you just print it in black and white?

Great question. Because the color background would print gray. The color background doesn’t need to be there. White background with black text prints well. Good question, glad you pointed that out!

I never found the instructions in Brun Water all that necessary I guess.
“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit.” Aristotle

"Messieurs, c’est les microbes qui auront le dernier mot." Louis Pasteur

Check out Low Oxygen Brewing at http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/

The Beerery

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Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #53 on: February 13, 2018, 01:55:23 AM »
That’s for that other mash though, a standard mash won’t have maltose at that low temp.


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The Hermann maische verfahren? 


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Offline Robert

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #54 on: February 13, 2018, 01:58:53 AM »
That’s for that other mash though, a standard mash won’t have maltose at that low temp.


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What I gather is that it will, but at lower levels.  The special process maximizes maltase activity to make those really bananish beers. The OP made a point that he likes less banana, and maybe Beerery does too, so the straight upward mash gives enough glucose for their taste.  Do you want mainstream Munich Weizen or some funky little country brewer's beer?  More than one way to skin a...um, the cat just jumped up.  Better not say it.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline hackrsackr

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #55 on: February 13, 2018, 01:59:06 AM »
Yeah that one. That’s what Robert was talking about, but your doing the standard mash, if I’m reading correctly. Curious as to how 114 would promote isoamyl acetate that way.


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Offline hackrsackr

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #56 on: February 13, 2018, 02:03:31 AM »
To me open fermentation, cool temp, and time (always curious if isoamyl oxidizes extracellularly providing isoamyl acetate) gives me banana.


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Offline Robert

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #57 on: February 13, 2018, 02:03:55 AM »
Yeah that one. That’s what Robert was talking about, but your doing the standard mash, if I’m reading correctly. Curious as to how 114 would promote isoamyl acetate that way.




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If the normal mash yields 10% glucose, and the special process 40%, and glucose is the key to isoamyl acetate production, that seems to me to describe the range of intensity of the ester in Weizens. 
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline hackrsackr

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Re: Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #58 on: February 13, 2018, 02:09:58 AM »
But it needs maltose to break into glucose.


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The Beerery

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Ultimate Traditional Weizen Recipe - I finally figured it out
« Reply #59 on: February 13, 2018, 02:12:01 AM »
Well I balance banana with the warmer fermentation.  I use 114 to balance clove or ester or yeasty( different rest times promote different profiles). There is a blurb about it in chapter 7 iirc.
W is my beer. It has slight banana. The Other mash which is split 60/40 makes a crazy estery beer. It’s wild.  But it oxidizes the mash too much for me and I then lose the lingering fresh malt that has to be in there. 




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