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Author Topic: Too much SO4?  (Read 5924 times)

Offline zwiller

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Re: Too much SO4?
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2018, 10:37:05 am »
Paper is astringency.  Usually brought on by lack of pH control.  90% time it is lack of sparge acidification unless using RO water.  I dig the SO4 "bite and thickness" and IIRC Martin described it as "crunk".  My IPA's get 300ppm and Terry Foster advocates much higher than that in his ale recipes (650)...  That said, mash and sparge pH is 5.4.  Water treatment is 2 phases.  Proper pH FIRST, then "season to taste".  Alot of guys get it backwards because gypsum can reduce pH (but usually not enough and then acid must be used).  If you have pH dialed in and still have some astringency, you need to look into polyphenol reduction (polyclar) or good old fashioned longer lagering for it to drop naturally.  As a BJCP I am gonna ding you if crunk is missing (save and except for NEIPA)
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Offline mabrungard

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Re: Too much SO4?
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2018, 01:26:49 pm »
Makes one wonder if the use of tannins like BrewTan-B is caused by the promotion of low calcium levels (as compared to the levels used by the British).

Gallotannins are known to chelate any free divalent metals in the wort, including Ca and Mg. I've seen research articles that showed something like 20 ppm Ca reduction. I suppose that we should be considering this effect when using gallotannin products.
Martin B
Carmel, IN

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Offline charles1968

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Re: Too much SO4?
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2018, 04:48:19 pm »
If you're aiming to make British style IPA, 200 ppm sulphate is on the low side (see table at bottom here: https://www.murphyandson.co.uk/water-water-everywhere/).

Sulphate is balanced by chloride (what's your Cl level in ppm?) and sweetness from malt, so there isn't really a personal limit as such - what tastes right depends on how much caramel/crystal malt is used and how much chloride is in the water.

1060 OG is not typical of British IPA. Over here IPAs are about 4.5% abv, but 1060 will give you more than 6% abv. That's really an American IPA, which is a valid style but stronger than the British version. I'm not sure what SO4 level would suit a 6+ abv beer, but the table on the Murphy's website applies to weaker beers.

As Charles has probably seen, I'm routinely castigated on the British forums for the modest mineralization that the Bru'n Water profiles suggest. As noted in that Murphy's table, they recommend far higher mineralization than I've found to be enjoyable. I guess it's a product of what you're used to.

On jimsbeerkit? Be careful discussing water chemistry on there, it can get heated.

My ales tend to be around 170ppm sulphate. Tastes normal to me. There might well be significant difference in sulphate levels in British and American beers, but very few home brewers over here actually bother to check. Those that do tend to use American water calculators as there aren't any good British tools online. Suits me as I brew more APAs than British bitters. I've never really nailed the British style, not sure why.

Did you see the following Brulosophy test in which tasters couldn't distinguish 200ppm sulphate from 51ppm? Tastes the same possibly because the sulphate to chloride ratio was equal.

http://brulosophy.com/2017/05/01/water-chemistry-pt-8-the-impact-of-mineral-load-when-ratio-is-the-same-exbeeriment-results/