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Author Topic: Brew Files Podcast Ep. 30 - Wild for Mild  (Read 3016 times)

Offline dbeechum

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Re: Brew Files Podcast Ep. 30 - Wild for Mild
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2018, 09:02:29 pm »
Yup.. I like a well made pilsner when it's fresh and super high quality, but most renditions just leave me flat. I want a beer with more to it, even when the alcohol is lower. I'm glad people liked the show, and yes, I did walk through all the variations of the word mild. Didn't talk much about porter->mild because I didn't see as much to be confident about when talking about that.

I love the style shows for the Brew Files, just wish I could research and write them faster!
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Brew Files Podcast Ep. 30 - Wild for Mild
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2018, 09:07:47 pm »
You made them sound tasty, and one day when I have a dual regulator I will try it out. Thanks Drew

Offline Robert

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Re: Brew Files Podcast Ep. 30 - Wild for Mild
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2018, 10:49:22 pm »
Maybe I'm not sure just what a Mild is now.  But the author of the old Brewers Publications style book on it, Dave Sutula, is the brewmaster at a brewery around here, Royal Docks.  They have a distinctly English inclination.  I have never been disappointed with any beer I've had from them.  Right now a staple in my fridge is his "+44 Brown Ale," 20 IBU, 5.5%abv,  and the blurb tells you it's for guys who don't overanalyze their beer.  On the high side for alcohol, but everything else I loved about English Mild.
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Offline brian_welch

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Re: Brew Files Podcast Ep. 30 - Wild for Mild
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2018, 08:21:52 am »
I think the mistake that's made in tracing the history of a style is just tracing recipes under the same name.  So a book on today's "mild" would have to work its way through things called porter, brown ale, and a dozen other names at some time.  A book on everything ever called "mild" -- or any other style name -- would make no sense, it would just be listing random unrelated beers.

I could not disagree more. I think this type of research (and Ron Pattinson is the all-time king of this, with research based on thousands and thousands of brewing records covering centuries of British breweries--including two books on Mild with lots of historical recipes) is absolutely crucial so that we avoid saying things like "mild is a descendant of porter" or that mild is roasty. There are so many misconceptions among homebrewers about beer styles because they make assumptions and don't read beer history. Just because beer evolves does not mean that it doesn't make sense to use the same name. And these beers aren't unrelated.  They evolved in a way that actually does make sense.  Tastes change.  Taxation policies, wars, shortages, etc force change.

Mild is a great example, if not the best.  Ron Pattinson's "The Homebrewer's Guide to Vintage Beer" has a table on page 104 that shows the OG and hopping rate for Whitbread Mild from every decade between 1836 to 1950. This beer did not become porter or descend from porter. It did become darker, probably because it also became weaker and there is a psychological trick that darker beer is stronger than lighter beer. But the darker color came from caramel coloring, not roasted malts. Now, late 20th century homebrewers came along and saw modern dark mild and the only way they knew to make it dark was to add roasted malts, so we ended up with modern roasty dark mild. But all along mild was a beer meant to be served fresh ("mild").

And I am glad that the BJCP is taking this history more seriously.  Frankly, I would love to see competitions that specify a decade for a certain beer style.  We can see this so clearly now in the way IPA is evolving.  West Coast IPA from 5-10 years ago is way different from a New England IPA, but I wouldn't say that they are unrelated or that it doesn't make sense to call them both IPAs.
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Offline Robert

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Re: Brew Files Podcast Ep. 30 - Wild for Mild
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2018, 08:53:55 am »
Sorry I'm no Ron Pattinson (though I have read and do admire and trust his work.)  But I have done some historical reading of my own which clearly leads to my conclusion that names and fashions change in sometimes misleading ways.  Is today's mild descended from 1850s porter? Of course not.  But have the names mild and porter crossed paths and been used in different ways in different times and places? Absolutely.  In turn of the 20th century brewing texts, mild refers to any beer not aged/vatted,  and in some sources the terms stout and porter refer respectively to the stock and running versions of similar dark beers.  So a porter would be referred to as mild --  possibly clouding the historical picture.  Especially as 50 years earlier, porter itself was always a vatted beer, and stout referred only to a particular strength, even applied to pale ales. You have to understand the context in which terms have been used by various sources, so as not to assume that ANY beer ever called mild is in the same category and lineage.  Ron is an outlier among writers in his attention to the evolution of particular lineages and ability not to be misled by current conceptions of style or popular usage.

EDIT  Note that the distinction between "mild" and "stale, vatted, old, stock" goes back centuries.  It is only after the decline of stock beers around the turn of the 20th century that mild could be exclusively applied to one style of beer, the one we know. 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 09:28:33 am by Robert »
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Offline brian_welch

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Re: Brew Files Podcast Ep. 30 - Wild for Mild
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2018, 10:27:27 am »
Ron is an outlier among writers in his attention to the evolution of particular lineages and ability not to be misled by current conceptions of style or popular usage.

Agree completely and unfortunately that is why we are in the boat that we are in. And sorry if I sounded on the attack.  There is just so much misinformation out there but also so much good quality research that people like Ron and Martyn Cornell and others are giving away but so few people even bother to read it.

Brian Welch
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Brew Files Podcast Ep. 30 - Wild for Mild
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2018, 12:02:21 pm »
Well, I can't wait to hear the podcast.  In a most simplified sense, I have always thought of an English Mild as a low alcohol version of an English Brown Ale, though the color spectrum can vary from copper to dark brown and the roast can be non-existent to slightly roasty and still fit the guidelines.  A fellow club member really gets into the style and has a fairly high temperature mash regimen to make a pretty tasty and nicely rounded mouthfeel in his mild interpretation.  Oddly, I was at a beer bar recently and the Mild being served was 8.2% ABV!  Not in my wheelhouse for a Mild.
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Online hopfenundmalz

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Re: Brew Files Podcast Ep. 30 - Wild for Mild
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2018, 06:12:03 pm »
Well, I can't wait to hear the podcast.  In a most simplified sense, I have always thought of an English Mild as a low alcohol version of an English Brown Ale, though the color spectrum can vary from copper to dark brown and the roast can be non-existent to slightly roasty and still fit the guidelines.  A fellow club member really gets into the style and has a fairly high temperature mash regimen to make a pretty tasty and nicely rounded mouthfeel in his mild interpretation.  Oddly, I was at a beer bar recently and the Mild being served was 8.2% ABV!  Not in my wheelhouse for a Mild.
Was that a Ron Pattinson recipe? One place near here has made one that is pale and about 10% based on historic “Mild” recipes. It was pretty tasty!
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Brew Files Podcast Ep. 30 - Wild for Mild
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2018, 06:17:12 pm »
Ron is an outlier among writers in his attention to the evolution of particular lineages and ability not to be misled by current conceptions of style or popular usage.

Agree completely and unfortunately that is why we are in the boat that we are in. And sorry if I sounded on the attack.  There is just so much misinformation out there but also so much good quality research that people like Ron and Martyn Cornell and others are giving away but so few people even bother to read it.
It sure seemed to me that Drew did a great job of explaining the history and most of it is from Pattinson.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Brew Files Podcast Ep. 30 - Wild for Mild
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2018, 07:23:23 pm »
Well, I can't wait to hear the podcast.  In a most simplified sense, I have always thought of an English Mild as a low alcohol version of an English Brown Ale, though the color spectrum can vary from copper to dark brown and the roast can be non-existent to slightly roasty and still fit the guidelines.  A fellow club member really gets into the style and has a fairly high temperature mash regimen to make a pretty tasty and nicely rounded mouthfeel in his mild interpretation.  Oddly, I was at a beer bar recently and the Mild being served was 8.2% ABV!  Not in my wheelhouse for a Mild.
Was that a Ron Pattinson recipe? One place near here has made one that is pale and about 10% based on historic “Mild” recipes. It was pretty tasty!

LionBridge xxxx Compensation dark mild.  I suspect that it is via Ron Pattinson, as it says it is an homage beer.  They also make a lower strength mild that is just 4.5 %ABV, but it wasn’t on tap at the beer bar I was at.
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Offline brian_welch

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Re: Brew Files Podcast Ep. 30 - Wild for Mild
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2018, 06:55:41 am »
Finally had a chance to listen this morning.  Great episode.  Wish this had come out before my club's dark mild competition last fall. A ton of great info in there.
Brian Welch
WIZARDS (Worcester Incorporated Zymurgists Advancing Real Draughts)

ON TAP:
Hefeweizen
West Coast Pils
German Pils
Altbier

ON DECK:
English Bitter
Dark Mild