[klickitat jim]

Have I posted to this debate yet?

Well I guess you have now.

Sweet!

I don't know hardly anything about Duvel. I agree with Keith, that it is possible to brew a big beer that is off flavor free as quickly as just about any other beer. Depending on the style, I agree with others who would say that some big beers seem to benefit from some age. Aged character can compliment some beers, but the lack of age is not what I would consider an off flavor.

I can't count how many beers that seemed way off the first time I tried them. So I change the recipe or procedure for next time, maybe even outright delete the recipe. Then a few days later... hey, what the... That's actually pretty good.

So did the "age" of a few days change the beer, or was it just not done yet? But I've also had a few beers that were super hot, or super estery, that a few days later were still that way. And a few months later were still that way, but the "age" and wishful thinking seemed to improve them. Probably, that's confirmation bias of hope and investment

[charles1968]

Yes there could be a psychological element. Some alcoholic drinks are an acquired taste, so maybe the "improvement" is just the process of acquiring the taste over the first half dozen or so drinks.

However, there is a definite process of improvement in bottle conditioned beers, particularly lagers. I keep tasting notes and have brewed many beers that I described as bland/sulphur/cloying/flat/insipid/hazy/bitter/vegetal etc at first pour but revise to perfect/delicious etc. as much as 3 or 4 months later after cold storage. I know for sure that storage improves clarity, carbonation, attenuation and smoothness, but I think there are chemical processes at work too, such as fusel alcohols reacting with acids to form flavor esters.

That said, I've no doubt you can shortcut the lagering process by kegging and that's the best way to package beers flavoured primarily by aroma hops. With kegged beers there's a higher risk of oxidation as there's no secondary fermentation to scavenge oxygen, so brewers who keg naturally find that fresh is best.

[MattyAHA]

Yes there could be a psychological element. Some alcoholic drinks are an acquired taste, so maybe the "improvement" is just the process of acquiring the taste over the first half dozen or so drinks.

However, there is a definite process of improvement in bottle conditioned beers, particularly lagers. I keep tasting notes and have brewed many beers that I described as bland/sulphur/cloying/flat/insipid/hazy/bitter/vegetal etc at first pour but revise to perfect/delicious etc. as much as 3 or 4 months later after cold storage. I know for sure that storage improves clarity, carbonation, attenuation and smoothness, but I think there are chemical processes at work too, such as fusel alcohols reacting with acids to form flavor esters.

That said, I've no doubt you can shortcut the lagering process by kegging and that's the best way to package beers flavoured primarily by aroma hops. With kegged beers there's a higher risk of oxidation as there's no secondary fermentation to scavenge oxygen, so brewers who keg naturally find that fresh is best.

i think im gonna follow the same procedure with kegging as i would have bottling, add some priming sugar and some cbc1 yeast in the keg to allow it to referment for 3-4 weeks then cellar at 42-45F for a month or 2 then into the kegerator, and hopefully after all this it will be drinkable, if not at least i tried and there is always next time, cheers everyone

[charles1968]

How did the beer turn out? Hope it was ok.

[Joe Sr.]

Just read through the whole thread and, while I'm way late to the party, I just have to add my two cents.

1) Table sugar will not, in my experience, give you a cider flavor.  If that's what you get you're doing it wrong.
2) You do not need to boil sugar to sanitize it.  You can, and I have, add dry sugar directly to the fermenter.  This works well if you prefer to add sugars incrementally.