Author Topic: DISH WASHER  (Read 1417 times)

Offline Pope of Dope

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DISH WASHER
« on: March 08, 2018, 06:43:08 PM »
Returning to bottling for a moment. I was thinking of using the dishwasher on Sani-wash mode to complete sterilizing bottles.  The dishwasher normally takes detergent and household dishes.  I obviously would not be putting detergent in there with the bottles, but is there risk that residue leftover in the dishwasher will impart itself into the bottles?  If so, I can just throw them in a bucket of sterilizer and call it a day, but the dishwasher is so much more convenient.
I like that. Hmm Hmm. "I don't know," that's nice. 'Mr. Hand, will I pass this class?' 'Gee Mr. Spicoli, I don't know.' That's nice, I really like that. You know what I'm gonna do? I'm going to leave your words on my board for all my classes to enjoy, giving you full credit of course, Mr. Spicoli.

Offline Slowbrew

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Re: DISH WASHER
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2018, 06:57:58 PM »
My brother used to use the dishwasher all the time for sterilizing his bottles.  He had good results. 

It's all past tense because he gave up brewing not because he stopped using his dishwasher.   ;D

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Offline yso191

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Re: DISH WASHER
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2018, 07:01:08 PM »
I just use PBW in the place of regular soap.  But then I always rinse the bottles with Starsan prior to filling.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: DISH WASHER
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2018, 07:51:39 PM »
is there risk that residue leftover in the dishwasher will impart itself into the bottles?

YES, THERE IS A RISK.

I would never.  I've been bottling every batch for 19 years and I would never.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: DISH WASHER
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2018, 01:41:23 AM »
I can't imagine a dishwasher would really get up inside those bottle necks.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: DISH WASHER
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2018, 02:01:03 AM »
Hot oxyclean soak, bottle brush, hot rinse, starsan soak, bottle tree. Repeat umpteen billion times.

Online Robert

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Re: DISH WASHER
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2018, 02:30:40 AM »
Hot oxyclean soak, bottle brush, hot rinse, starsan soak, bottle tree. Repeat umpteen billion times.
There is a one step, lazy alternative as old as Papazian and my SOP when I regularly bottled.  Big tubs.  Water with ~1oz/gal bleach. Leave bottles in there as long as you like, days or weeks, till you need 'em, it will both clean and sanitize.  Jet rinse and bottle tree. Whew,  I'm beat.  ;D
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: DISH WASHER
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2018, 03:17:10 AM »
Hot oxyclean soak, bottle brush, hot rinse, starsan soak, bottle tree. Repeat umpteen billion times.
There is a one step, lazy alternative as old as Papazian and my SOP when I regularly bottled.  Big tubs.  Water with ~1oz/gal bleach. Leave bottles in there as long as you like, days or weeks, till you need 'em, it will both clean and sanitize.  Jet rinse and bottle tree. Whew,  I'm beat.  ;D
I'll take your word for it. But I am a sanitation freak. "Cleans and sanitizes" always freaks me out. We each have our quirks I guess.

Online Robert

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Re: DISH WASHER
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2018, 03:38:33 AM »
Hot oxyclean soak, bottle brush, hot rinse, starsan soak, bottle tree. Repeat umpteen billion times.
There is a one step, lazy alternative as old as Papazian and my SOP when I regularly bottled.  Big tubs.  Water with ~1oz/gal bleach. Leave bottles in there as long as you like, days or weeks, till you need 'em, it will both clean and sanitize.  Jet rinse and bottle tree. Whew,  I'm beat.  ;D
I'll take your word for it. But I am a sanitation freak. "Cleans and sanitizes" always freaks me out. We each have our quirks I guess.
Used it for many years, never a problem.  Bleach is highly unfashionable among homebrewers now, and in some applications with good reason, but worth reconsidering.   As a cleaner, in cold water it is a mild alkaline cleaner, slower acting than percarbonates, let alone caustic, but ultimately just as effective.  And of course its sanitizing credentials are rock solid.  This method requires only two things:  you have room to leave a couple tubs of soaking bottles around most of the time, and you trust your hot rinse water.  Beer spoilers can't really live in water, so even a well is probably good, city water no problem. RDWHAHB!

EDIT  I should say the part about rinse water for me applies to any method.  My quirk has long been that I don't really believe there is such a thing as a no rinse sanitizer.  Certainly not Star San,  especially in the amount that remains in bottles.  I've reconciled myself to a little iodophor in a keg....
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 03:49:07 AM by Robert »
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: DISH WASHER
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2018, 04:32:06 AM »
Hot oxyclean soak, bottle brush, hot rinse, starsan soak, bottle tree. Repeat umpteen billion times.
There is a one step, lazy alternative as old as Papazian and my SOP when I regularly bottled.  Big tubs.  Water with ~1oz/gal bleach. Leave bottles in there as long as you like, days or weeks, till you need 'em, it will both clean and sanitize.  Jet rinse and bottle tree. Whew,  I'm beat.  ;D
I'll take your word for it. But I am a sanitation freak. "Cleans and sanitizes" always freaks me out. We each have our quirks I guess.
Used it for many years, never a problem.  Bleach is highly unfashionable among homebrewers now, and in some applications with good reason, but worth reconsidering.   As a cleaner, in cold water it is a mild alkaline cleaner, slower acting than percarbonates, let alone caustic, but ultimately just as effective.  And of course its sanitizing credentials are rock solid.  This method requires only two things:  you have room to leave a couple tubs of soaking bottles around most of the time, and you trust your hot rinse water.  Beer spoilers can't really live in water, so even a well is probably good, city water no problem. RDWHAHB!

EDIT  I should say the part about rinse water for me applies to any method.  My quirk has long been that I don't really believe there is such a thing as a no rinse sanitizer.  Certainly not Star San,  especially in the amount that remains in bottles.  I've reconciled myself to a little iodophor in a keg....
I'm not saying your method doesn't work. How could I, given that i've never done it? What I am saying is that when it comes to cleaning and sanitation, "for me", Saying RDWHAHB is about as effective as telling me that running is fun. I believe you, I'm just not going to do it.

Offline Big Monk

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Re: DISH WASHER
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2018, 10:52:20 AM »
Hot oxyclean soak, bottle brush, hot rinse, starsan soak, bottle tree. Repeat umpteen billion times.
There is a one step, lazy alternative as old as Papazian and my SOP when I regularly bottled.  Big tubs.  Water with ~1oz/gal bleach. Leave bottles in there as long as you like, days or weeks, till you need 'em, it will both clean and sanitize.  Jet rinse and bottle tree. Whew,  I'm beat.  ;D
I'll take your word for it. But I am a sanitation freak. "Cleans and sanitizes" always freaks me out. We each have our quirks I guess.
Used it for many years, never a problem.  Bleach is highly unfashionable among homebrewers now, and in some applications with good reason, but worth reconsidering.   As a cleaner, in cold water it is a mild alkaline cleaner, slower acting than percarbonates, let alone caustic, but ultimately just as effective.  And of course its sanitizing credentials are rock solid.  This method requires only two things:  you have room to leave a couple tubs of soaking bottles around most of the time, and you trust your hot rinse water.  Beer spoilers can't really live in water, so even a well is probably good, city water no problem. RDWHAHB!

EDIT  I should say the part about rinse water for me applies to any method.  My quirk has long been that I don't really believe there is such a thing as a no rinse sanitizer.  Certainly not Star San,  especially in the amount that remains in bottles.  I've reconciled myself to a little iodophor in a keg....
I'm not saying your method doesn't work. How could I, given that i've never done it? What I am saying is that when it comes to cleaning and sanitation, "for me", Saying RDWHAHB is about as effective as telling me that running is fun. I believe you, I'm just not going to do it.

That’s hilarious.  ;D
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: DISH WASHER
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2018, 01:02:15 PM »
My method which allows skipping of unnecessary scrubbing of about 95% of bottles.  I'm not going to describe label removal as that is a thing for another day.  Pay close attention and don't skip step #1:

1) When consuming a bottled beverage and you wish to reuse the bottle, RINSE WELL IN HOT WATER IMMEDIATELY 3 OR 4 TIMES, then add to your stash for as many days, months, or years as you want.

2) On bottling day, rinse each bottle 3 times again, then fill each bottle to the brim with hot water and set aside.

3) While filling bottles, if you notice an unusual amount of foam on top, set aside for stronger scrubbing later.

4) After every bottle is filled with hot water and you know which few are problematic by observing foam on top, scrub those bottles with a brush, rinse, then fill with hot water to the brim for the second time, repeating steps 2 thru 4 as necessary.

5) When no more bottles are problematic, fill a tub with several gallons water and StarSan, then set each filled bottle in the tub.

6) Wait a few minutes.

7) Drain all bottles and set into empty cases ready for filling.

Ta-da.  Every bottle is sanitized and you only had to scrub like 5% of them.

I've been doing this for >15 years on many thousands of bottles and never had a problem with inconsistent carbonation or random contamination, etc.
Dave

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Offline Big Monk

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Re: DISH WASHER
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2018, 01:13:42 PM »
My method which allows skipping of unnecessary scrubbing of about 95% of bottles.  I'm not going to describe label removal as that is a thing for another day.  Pay close attention and don't skip step #1:

1) When consuming a bottled beverage and you wish to reuse the bottle, RINSE WELL IN HOT WATER IMMEDIATELY 3 OR 4 TIMES, then add to your stash for as many days, months, or years as you want.

2) On bottling day, rinse each bottle 3 times again, then fill each bottle to the brim with hot water and set aside.

3) While filling bottles, if you notice an unusual amount of foam on top, set aside for stronger scrubbing later.

4) After every bottle is filled with hot water and you know which few are problematic by observing foam on top, scrub those bottles with a brush, rinse, then fill with hot water to the brim for the second time, repeating steps 2 thru 4 as necessary.

5) When no more bottles are problematic, fill a tub with several gallons water and StarSan, then set each filled bottle in the tub.

6) Wait a few minutes.

7) Drain all bottles and set into empty cases ready for filling.

Ta-da.  Every bottle is sanitized and you only had to scrub like 5% of them.

I've been doing this for >15 years on many thousands of bottles and never had a problem with inconsistent carbonation or random contamination, etc.

This is my MO as well. I only save Trappist glass and those labels slide right off in hot water.
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Online Robert

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Re: DISH WASHER
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2018, 08:01:48 PM »
Hot oxyclean soak, bottle brush, hot rinse, starsan soak, bottle tree. Repeat umpteen billion times.
There is a one step, lazy alternative as old as Papazian and my SOP when I regularly bottled.  Big tubs.  Water with ~1oz/gal bleach. Leave bottles in there as long as you like, days or weeks, till you need 'em, it will both clean and sanitize.  Jet rinse and bottle tree. Whew,  I'm beat.  ;D
I'll take your word for it. But I am a sanitation freak. "Cleans and sanitizes" always freaks me out. We each have our quirks I guess.

One of my quirks is what now constitutes an heretical view of cleaning and sanitizing (which does not necessarily dictate my practices):  In my view, sanitizing is killing the stuff that still adheres to a surface, while cleaning is removing everything from the surface in the first place.  Thus the old brewery standby of hot caustic followed by a water rinse until runoff pH was neutral did the whole job, and was all that was needed on bottles.  Even took the labels off!

 Clearly this is impractical for homebrewers in most cases.  But on glass it could be used if not for safety concerns, and that's where bleach -- heresy! -- can be serviceable.  It functions the same way, but slowly.  The grungiest carboy will be clean in a day.

 Just putting this out there for consideration for those who want options. When I started, bleach was about the only cleaning and sanitizing product available.  Much has improved, but much may have been unnecessarily complicated and priced up, like in every aspect of homebrewing; newer isn't always better, just different or newly accepted dogma sometimes!

 That said, again, since I no longer bottle or ferment in glass, I'm usually in practice a user of (depending on the job) PBW, iodophor,  Star San, Saniclean, BS Remover,  dish liquid, etc.  Surfeit of choice!
Rob Stein
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Offline James K

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Re: DISH WASHER
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2018, 08:30:45 PM »
Returning to bottling for a moment. I was thinking of using the dishwasher on Sani-wash mode to complete sterilizing bottles.  The dishwasher normally takes detergent and household dishes.  I obviously would not be putting detergent in there with the bottles, but is there risk that residue leftover in the dishwasher will impart itself into the bottles?  If so, I can just throw them in a bucket of sterilizer and call it a day, but the dishwasher is so much more convenient.
I don’t even own a dishwasher. That said. I usually fill up buckets and do a sort of assembly line when I bottle. I clean my bottles immediately after use and then they go in storage until bottling day. I soak in hot pbw, rinse in starsan, dry, and bottle in the same day. I only use 750 swing tops.

I guess my unsaid point is, you can be through or take chances with the machine.
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