Author Topic: Two vessel system  (Read 1006 times)

Offline Fzabinski

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Two vessel system
« on: March 09, 2018, 06:23:15 PM »
Hey guys. Just looking for some input on converting my 3 vessel system to a 2 vessel. I am replacing my cooler hlt and mash tun with a 8 gall megapot with false bottom. I have a blichmann auto Sparge I am mounting to the megapot. My plan is to basically have a horizontal blichmann breweasy. Other equipment includes two chugger pumps, hop rocket with rims tube, and inkbird controller. As far as water volumes here's my concept:

Heat strike water in BK to STRIKE temp (using beersmith calc for temp and volume)

Pump water into mash tun from bottom up

Using Beer Smith fly Sparge volume heat water to MASH temp.

Vorlauf until wort runs clear.
Now using two pumps and a RIMS rocket controlled by inkbird controller with temp sensor in a thermowell in the mash tun, recirculate at set temp from bottom of mash tun to whirlpool inlet in BK, out of BK through rims rocket, back up to auto Sparge arm.

After 60 min recirc at set temp raise temp to mashout using propane burner under BK or with rims rocket. Once mashout is complete pump remaining wort into BK and continue on with brewing.
Sorry about the lengthy post just want some input. Here's a current pic of my rig

 

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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Two vessel system
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2018, 06:42:21 PM »
Sounds like a winner!  I use a two vessel system - a mash tun that is BIAB with an electrical element in it and a Herms kettle with a coil in water, also with an electric element to heat the water for step mashing.  I heat up the strike water (I LODO it, so I boil and then chill - using the HERMS coil in cold water - to just above first mash temp for dough in), add the grains slowly, stir completely, but gently and recirculate out the bottom of the mash tun to the HERMS coil and back into the mash in a closed loop.  I step mash with the HERMS tun electric element.  The key is getting the run off at the right rate, so you don't outpace the draining and pack down the mash and result in an even slower recirc.  Valves help control it all.  It takes a few batches to get it all down, but it works.
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Offline Fzabinski

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Re: Two vessel system
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2018, 06:54:31 PM »
Sounds like a winner!  I use a two vessel system - a mash tun that is BIAB with an electrical element in it and a Herms kettle with a coil in water, also with an electric element to heat the water for step mashing.  I heat up the strike water (I LODO it, so I boil and then chill - using the HERMS coil in cold water - to just above first mash temp for dough in), add the grains slowly, stir completely, but gently and recirculate out the bottom of the mash tun to the HERMS coil and back into the mash in a closed loop.  I step mash with the HERMS tun electric element.  The key is getting the run off at the right rate, so you don't outpace the draining and pack down the mash and result in an even slower recirc.  Valves help control it all.  It takes a few batches to get it all down, but it works.
Awesome. So are you doing a no Sparge method as well?


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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Two vessel system
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2018, 07:12:04 PM »
Correct, I have a large Stout Tank BIAB mash and boil kettle set up that is big enough for 10 gallon batches (my typical size) and I use a hoist for lifting the mash.  I make water adjustments using Brunwater and I am not even testing pH or other things anymore, other than refractometer at the end of the boil.  5 gallon batches are a bit of a challenge, but can be accommodated on the set up.
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Offline Fzabinski

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Re: Two vessel system
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2018, 09:03:53 PM »
Correct, I have a large Stout Tank BIAB mash and boil kettle set up that is big enough for 10 gallon batches (my typical size) and I use a hoist for lifting the mash.  I make water adjustments using Brunwater and I am not even testing pH or other things anymore, other than refractometer at the end of the boil.  5 gallon batches are a bit of a challenge, but can be accommodated on the set up.
How's your efficiency been ?


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Offline Franklin

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Re: Two vessel system
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2018, 10:02:21 PM »
i just like my blue cooler and my awesome grain mill,..nothing too exotic...some taylor thermometers.,.mostly old style brewing,..good yeast,..thank you WY...local hops,..keep it simple....batch sparging,..i know,...good times,,  what's a pump?
Frank Linkh

Offline Fzabinski

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Re: Two vessel system
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2018, 10:19:07 PM »
i just like my blue cooler and my awesome grain mill,..nothing too exotic...some taylor thermometers.,.mostly old style brewing,..good yeast,..thank you WY...local hops,..keep it simple....batch sparging,..i know,...good times,,  what's a pump?
I did my fair share of old school style brewing and appreciate it. I just like building brew set ups and seeing how they operate

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Offline narcout

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Re: Two vessel system
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2018, 10:24:34 PM »
Heat strike water in BK to STRIKE temp (using beersmith calc for temp and volume)

Pump water into mash tun from bottom up

Using Beer Smith fly Sparge volume heat water to MASH temp.

Vorlauf until wort runs clear.
Now using two pumps and a RIMS rocket controlled by inkbird controller with temp sensor in a thermowell in the mash tun, recirculate at set temp from bottom of mash tun to whirlpool inlet in BK, out of BK through rims rocket, back up to auto Sparge arm.

After 60 min recirc at set temp raise temp to mashout using propane burner under BK or with rims rocket. Once mashout is complete pump remaining wort into BK and continue on with brewing.
Sorry about the lengthy post just want some input. Here's a current pic of my rig

There are a few things I don't understand.

Are you planning to sparge or not?

Why vorlauf at the beginning of the mash if you are going to be recirculating the whole time?

Why is the wort flowing MT > BK > RR > MT, rather than MT > RR > MT?

Will an Inkbird work well with a RIMS Rocket?  I don't have one, but I thought it was designed to work with a PID controller.

Also, don't you want the temp sensor at the output of the RIMS Rocket rather than in the mash tun?  I don't have a RIMS setup so I could be wrong, but I've researched them a bit as I was seriously considering going that route at one time.

I switched to a 2 vessel, no-sparge method a little over a year ago and have been pretty happy with it.
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Offline yso191

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Re: Two vessel system
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2018, 11:08:06 PM »
I’ve got a 3 vessel system that I use and the only time I sparge is when brewing a really big beer.  I have a 15 gallon insulated SS  MT, that works well up to about 1.090.

I haven’t suffered any loss in efficiency.  I no longer see any need to sparge.  A waste of time.
Steve
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Two vessel system
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2018, 11:23:52 PM »
I’ve got a 3 vessel system that I use and the only time I sparge is when brewing a really big beer.  I have a 15 gallon insulated SS  MT, that works well up to about 1.090.

I haven’t suffered any loss in efficiency.  I no longer see any need to sparge.  A waste of time.
Recently I started simplifying my process wherever I can and switched to 2 vessel no sparge. I love it. Consistent brew house efficiency of 65%, grain is cheap. When I double mash for my huge beers, that slips to 63.5%.

Offline Fzabinski

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Re: Two vessel system
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2018, 02:29:30 AM »
Heat strike water in BK to STRIKE temp (using beersmith calc for temp and volume)

Pump water into mash tun from bottom up

Using Beer Smith fly Sparge volume heat water to MASH temp.

Vorlauf until wort runs clear.
Now using two pumps and a RIMS rocket controlled by inkbird controller with temp sensor in a thermowell in the mash tun, recirculate at set temp from bottom of mash tun to whirlpool inlet in BK, out of BK through rims rocket, back up to auto Sparge arm.

After 60 min recirc at set temp raise temp to mashout using propane burner under BK or with rims rocket. Once mashout is complete pump remaining wort into BK and continue on with brewing.
Sorry about the lengthy post just want some input. Here's a current pic of my rig

There are a few things I don't understand.

Are you planning to sparge or not?

Why vorlauf at the beginning of the mash if you are going to be recirculating the whole time?

Why is the wort flowing MT > BK > RR > MT, rather than MT > RR > MT?

Will an Inkbird work well with a RIMS Rocket?  I don't have one, but I thought it was designed to work with a PID controller.

Also, don't you want the temp sensor at the output of the RIMS Rocket rather than in the mash tun?  I don't have a RIMS setup so I could be wrong, but I've researched them a bit as I was seriously considering going that route at one time.

I switched to a 2 vessel, no-sparge method a little over a year ago and have been pretty happy with it.
Hey narcout thanks for the interest. I'm new to this no Sparge method and to answer the question about vorlauf I thought maybe it would be a good idea to do so I didn't have as much sediment going through my pumps and into boil kettle. As far as the rims rocket goes I figured a simple on of controller such as the inkbird would work. I was going to place the temp sensor in the MT because I feel as though that is the more important temp to measure to control the temp of the mash. If mash temp dips too low rims rocket will turn on until it reaches temp and Visa versa. As far as order goes mt-bk-rims-mt and not just mt-rims-mt is because I don't believe my MT is large enough to accommodate total water volume and grains. Let me know what you think. Thanks again

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Offline narcout

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Re: Two vessel system
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2018, 08:46:49 PM »
Hey narcout thanks for the interest. I'm new to this no Sparge method and to answer the question about vorlauf I thought maybe it would be a good idea to do so I didn't have as much sediment going through my pumps and into boil kettle. As far as the rims rocket goes I figured a simple on of controller such as the inkbird would work. I was going to place the temp sensor in the MT because I feel as though that is the more important temp to measure to control the temp of the mash. If mash temp dips too low rims rocket will turn on until it reaches temp and Visa versa. As far as order goes mt-bk-rims-mt and not just mt-rims-mt is because I don't believe my MT is large enough to accommodate total water volume and grains. Let me know what you think. Thanks again

Got it.

Have you already purchased the gear?  It might be easier to buy a larger mash tun rather than splitting the volume between the tun and the BK.

Regarding the Inkbird, it might be worth contacting Blichmann and asking their opinion on whether it will work well.  I think a PID would be better, but I'm not speaking from personal experience so this whole post is just conjecture.

I know the manual for the Rims Rocket states that the temperature probe should be located at the output of the  RR.  If you put the probe in the mash tun, I think the wort coming out of the RR will be hotter than the main mash.  You might effectively be mashing a few degrees higher than you intend.  Maybe ask Blichmann about that as well?

There are some people on this forum using a RIMS so hopefully they will chime in. 
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Two vessel system
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2018, 09:59:03 PM »
I never bother with calculating efficiency, believe it or not.  Like Jim said, grain is cheap and I buy by the sack.  I can make my 1.047 Helles with 18 pounds of a mix of pilsner and two row, plus a little carahell - a pound or so, up to 1.5 pounds and adjust pH with a pound of sauermalz.  Batch size may vary up to a half gallon, depending on boil off (ambient humidity and temperature affecting it along with boil intensity - I have gone to a gentle roll anymore, usually, but sometimes it gets away from me!)
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Offline PutnamBrewer

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Re: Two vessel system
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2018, 02:28:18 PM »
Here's the 2 Vessel System a buddy and I put together. It's a Kettle Rims System 240v 5500W - Kettle is to the left and the mash tun gravity drains to the kettle.  We do full volume mash for 60-90 minutes (no Sparge), then raise temp to 168 for mash out.  We can get a batch done within 4 hours.  I don't think I'll ever go back to a traditional 3 vessel system and sparging.  The system is very efficient.  We don't add any additional grains, and our figures are been pretty spot on every time.

The 2 things I would change would be the temp probes and location. The Mash reads from what comes out of the mash tun, I would rather what's going in and the Boil Kettle Probe is in the T for the Volume and doesn't read true kettle temp - so boil shows 208 degrees or less sometimes.

« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 02:30:18 PM by PutnamBrewer »