Author Topic: IPA Riddle  (Read 1493 times)

Offline majorvices

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Re: IPA Riddle
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2018, 12:20:40 AM »
They were just talking about diacetyl spikes after dryhopping on the latest MBAA podcast. They were saying that it might be enzymes (glycosides and others) in the hops  that are active and either break down dextrins or split glycosides, then the yeast start to ferment and produce diacetyl.


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That's really interesting I'll have to start listening to that podcast. However, I will say that once I found alternative means to dry hopping and eliminating sources of DO pick up during  dry hoping my problems with diacetyl and hoppy beersd went away completely so I'd look at minimizing DO pick up to begin with.

Offline RC

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Re: IPA Riddle
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2018, 02:54:55 AM »
Easy to test what the source is, going forward. VDK test before you cold crash, simple as that. Google it. It'll tell you if the diacetyl originates from the beer in the carboy. If the test is negative, the source is something post-carboy (keg, dip tube, tap line ,etc.)

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: IPA Riddle
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2018, 04:29:21 AM »
They were just talking about diacetyl spikes after dryhopping on the latest MBAA podcast. They were saying that it might be enzymes (glycosides and others) in the hops  that are active and either break down dextrins or split glycosides, then the yeast start to ferment and produce diacetyl.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's really interesting I'll have to start listening to that podcast. However, I will say that once I found alternative means to dry hopping and eliminating sources of DO pick up during  dry hoping my problems with diacetyl and hoppy beersd went away completely so I'd look at minimizing DO pick up to begin with.
I just started listening. Check out Simplifying Cert of Malt Analysis 1, 2, 3, and 4, and Developing Malt Flavor 1, 2, 3 with Joe Hertrich. Tons of info, but he does a great job of winnowing it down to what you need to know.

My favorite comment was that low SRM is the enemy of good flavor, lol!

Offline hackrsackr

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Re: IPA Riddle
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2018, 07:17:05 AM »
They were just talking about diacetyl spikes after dryhopping on the latest MBAA podcast. They were saying that it might be enzymes (glycosides and others) in the hops  that are active and either break down dextrins or split glycosides, then the yeast start to ferment and produce diacetyl.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's really interesting I'll have to start listening to that podcast. However, I will say that once I found alternative means to dry hopping and eliminating sources of DO pick up during  dry hoping my problems with diacetyl and hoppy beersd went away completely so I'd look at minimizing DO pick up to begin with.
I just started listening. Check out Simplifying Cert of Malt Analysis 1, 2, 3, and 4, and Developing Malt Flavor 1, 2, 3 with Joe Hertrich. Tons of info, but he does a great job of winnowing it down to what you need to know.

My favorite comment was that low SRM is the enemy of good flavor, lol!

The guests on the that podcast are amazing! Bryce asks questions and stays outta their way. Check out the yeast episodes with Graham Stewart. I wish I could talk to him everyday about beer and yeast.


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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: IPA Riddle
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2018, 08:36:06 AM »
They were just talking about diacetyl spikes after dryhopping on the latest MBAA podcast. They were saying that it might be enzymes (glycosides and others) in the hops  that are active and either break down dextrins or split glycosides, then the yeast start to ferment and produce diacetyl.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's really interesting I'll have to start listening to that podcast. However, I will say that once I found alternative means to dry hopping and eliminating sources of DO pick up during  dry hoping my problems with diacetyl and hoppy beersd went away completely so I'd look at minimizing DO pick up to begin with.
I just started listening. Check out Simplifying Cert of Malt Analysis 1, 2, 3, and 4, and Developing Malt Flavor 1, 2, 3 with Joe Hertrich. Tons of info, but he does a great job of winnowing it down to what you need to know.

My favorite comment was that low SRM is the enemy of good flavor, lol!

The guests on the that podcast are amazing! Bryce asks questions and stays outta their way. Check out the yeast episodes with Graham Stewart. I wish I could talk to him everyday about beer and yeast.


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I was checking out MBAA episode 38 with Daniel Sharp (Ninkasi) and Shellhammer  (OSU) about hop aroma from the kettle. I now have an "Appeal to Authority" argument for my belief that boil kettle hops actually do contribute to hop aroma. Mind blow, mic drop, LOL. It's funny that people can completely ignore their own noses and blindly follow "common wisdom" that boil kettle hops do not contribute anything  to aroma. Well, now there's a PhD and a PhD-in making, who have scientific proof that they can and do. Enough aroma? I suppose that depends. I can tell you that in blah beer styles they can contribute too much aroma. I know that from judge notes on a Helles I submitted once that had an ounce of Hal Mit at 60 min. Too much hop aroma!
« Last Edit: March 25, 2018, 08:56:18 AM by klickitat jim »

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: IPA Riddle
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2018, 09:36:13 AM »
By the way - MBAA episode 73 is about Dry Hopping and Diacetyl with a study by White Labs
« Last Edit: March 25, 2018, 11:25:48 AM by klickitat jim »

Offline Robert

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Re: IPA Riddle
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2018, 12:53:36 PM »
They were just talking about diacetyl spikes after dryhopping on the latest MBAA podcast. They were saying that it might be enzymes (glycosides and others) in the hops  that are active and either break down dextrins or split glycosides, then the yeast start to ferment and produce diacetyl.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's really interesting I'll have to start listening to that podcast. However, I will say that once I found alternative means to dry hopping and eliminating sources of DO pick up during  dry hoping my problems with diacetyl and hoppy beersd went away completely so I'd look at minimizing DO pick up to begin with.
I just started listening. Check out Simplifying Cert of Malt Analysis 1, 2, 3, and 4, and Developing Malt Flavor 1, 2, 3 with Joe Hertrich. Tons of info, but he does a great job of winnowing it down to what you need to know.

My favorite comment was that low SRM is the enemy of good flavor, lol!

The guests on the that podcast are amazing! Bryce asks questions and stays outta their way. Check out the yeast episodes with Graham Stewart. I wish I could talk to him everyday about beer and yeast.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
His accent is worth the price of admission


I was checking out MBAA episode 38 with Daniel Sharp (Ninkasi) and Shellhammer  (OSU) about hop aroma from the kettle. I now have an "Appeal to Authority" argument for my belief that boil kettle hops actually do contribute to hop aroma. Mind blow, mic drop, LOL. It's funny that people can completely ignore their own noses and blindly follow "common wisdom" that boil kettle hops do not contribute anything  to aroma. Well, now there's a PhD and a PhD-in making, who have scientific proof that they can and do. Enough aroma? I suppose that depends. I can tell you that in blah beer styles they can contribute too much aroma. I know that from judge notes on a Helles I submitted once that had an ounce of Hal Mit at 60 min. Too much hop aroma!
I've always had a suspicion about this.  Way back, DeClerck insisted that hops contribute their aroma no matter when in the boil they're added, and thought late hopping was a waste.  Late hopping was still rare in his day. Lately I've been splitting evenly between FWH and 10 min.  I may just try pushing it all back to the start as an experiment. (I've done it in the past, but it's worth revisiting to refresh memory.) And I really have to find more time to listen to these podcasts! 
Rob Stein
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Offline hackrsackr

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Re: IPA Riddle
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2018, 01:35:19 PM »
^^^ I listen at 1.5X or 2.0X speed, depending on the podcast.


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Offline Robert

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Re: IPA Riddle
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2018, 02:36:00 AM »
^^^ I listen at 1.5X or 2.0X speed, depending on the podcast.


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Good tip. Got through several today. I can cope with 1.5x despite information density.  Weird thing? Totally freaks my cat.  Drop back to 1x, she goes back to sleep next to me.  Guess she can't keep up in her hypnotic learning.   
Rob Stein
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I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline hackrsackr

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Re: IPA Riddle
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2018, 03:09:54 AM »
^^^ I listen at 1.5X or 2.0X speed, depending on the podcast.


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Good tip. Got through several today. I can cope with 1.5x despite information density.  Weird thing? Totally freaks my cat.  Drop back to 1x, she goes back to sleep next to me.  Guess she can't keep up in her hypnotic learning.   

Yeah 1.5x is my usual. 2.0x is only for slow talkers or people who do those long pauses mid-thought/sentence. I’ll drop it to 1.0x and go back when something gets too dense or very interesting.

You should start talking to your cat in 1.5x.




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Offline Phil_M

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Re: IPA Riddle
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2018, 12:06:33 PM »
They were just talking about diacetyl spikes after dryhopping on the latest MBAA podcast. They were saying that it might be enzymes (glycosides and others) in the hops  that are active and either break down dextrins or split glycosides, then the yeast start to ferment and produce diacetyl.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's really interesting I'll have to start listening to that podcast. However, I will say that once I found alternative means to dry hopping and eliminating sources of DO pick up during  dry hoping my problems with diacetyl and hoppy beersd went away completely so I'd look at minimizing DO pick up to begin with.

Going back to hops restarting fermentation and causing an increase in diacetyl...Ron's blog post today has some great info on dry hopping's fermentation effects:

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2018/03/why-dry-hop.html
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Offline Robert

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Re: IPA Riddle
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2018, 12:33:23 PM »
They were just talking about diacetyl spikes after dryhopping on the latest MBAA podcast. They were saying that it might be enzymes (glycosides and others) in the hops  that are active and either break down dextrins or split glycosides, then the yeast start to ferment and produce diacetyl.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's really interesting I'll have to start listening to that podcast. However, I will say that once I found alternative means to dry hopping and eliminating sources of DO pick up during  dry hoping my problems with diacetyl and hoppy beersd went away completely so I'd look at minimizing DO pick up to begin with.

Going back to hops restarting fermentation and causing an increase in diacetyl...Ron's blog post today has some great info on dry hopping's fermentation effects:

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2018/03/why-dry-hop.html
Wahl-Henius Handybook (1901) emphasizes both the clarifying effect of tannic acid in dry hops,  and their containing diastase to break down dextrins to fermentable sugar.  On one of the podcasts Joe Formanik talks about adding tannic acid to the BBT,  and of course we know about priming.  Seems the 19th c brewers were ahead of us.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.