[raf]

To start I do a 60 min addition of Warrior for approx 30ibu.

That's a fairly substantial bittering charge. Wonder to what degree (if any) it's masking the character from the others. Maybe do a batch without the 60-minute, and just burst everything else towards the end? If that doesn't help to magnify the individual flavors, try again with hops from a different supplier. As dannyjed said, there can be a lot of variance.

[klickitat jim]

Sounds like a plan. Whatever you do, don't loose sight of why you brew. "Lost" just can't be it.

[curtdogg]

To start I do a 60 min addition of Warrior for approx 30ibu.

That's a fairly substantial bittering charge. Wonder to what degree (if any) it's masking the character from the others. Maybe do a batch without the 60-minute, and just burst everything else towards the end? If that doesn't help to magnify the individual flavors, try again with hops from a different supplier. As dannyjed said, there can be a lot of variance.

Right, this last brew was 3ml of extract at 60 minutes (23 ibu). I got a sharper citrus flavor from that.


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[curtdogg]

Sounds like a plan. Whatever you do, don't loose sight of why you brew. "Lost" just can't be it.

For sure Jim thank you.
Tomorrow will be an American Brown Ale  wit Simcoe and Amarillo. I should get some flavor from that for sure.


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[klickitat jim]

[MNWayne]

I found the same thing happening with my beers. All way too similar. I found using more traditional hops helped. My hopping schedule is similar to yours. I usually bitter with Northern Brewer and use Hallertau  and/or Saaz for late additions. I really like Northern Brewer and will occasionally use it throughout. I always keep Cascade and Citra on hand for when I want to punch it up, usually in the summer. Summertime I'll occasionally lighten the body using a pound of rice in the mash. It sounds like you can control ferment temps. Why not give lager a try? I can turn a lager around in 2 weeks, that's only about 4 more days than your schedule. Our waters are quite different, not sure how that's affecting your beer, I'm used to a much lighter ion load.

[ethinson]

"I try to  take into account all the info but opinions vary so much I feel I have to leave it to my own research"

Bingo!

After trying  so many diffrent techniques and having a similar outcome everytime there comes a point where you feel lost.

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This is really frustrating.  Been there, I'm sure we all have, I almost quit brewing once I was so fed up with it.  But this is the point where you start learning.  It's not easy, but this is where you start trying new things and pushing boundaries. 

I know you're focused on hop flavor, and so the responses have been hop related, but another thing that jumps out at me when you say all of your beers taste the same, is your base beer. 

The malt bill is "usually this", same yeast, same water treatment etc.  If your base beer is the same and all you're varying is the hops, the differences between them may be more subtle than you expect.  It might not be a huge difference.  Maybe start varying the base beer to see what plays well with the different hops? Something light and dry with juicy citrus hops, something darker (red/black) with dank pine hops etc.  You might hit on something with that brown ale since it's something different.

[curtdogg]

"I try to  take into account all the info but opinions vary so much I feel I have to leave it to my own research"

Bingo!

After trying  so many diffrent techniques and having a similar outcome everytime there comes a point where you feel lost.

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This is really frustrating.  Been there, I'm sure we all have, I almost quit brewing once I was so fed up with it.  But this is the point where you start learning.  It's not easy, but this is where you start trying new things and pushing boundaries. 

I know you're focused on hop flavor, and so the responses have been hop related, but another thing that jumps out at me when you say all of your beers taste the same, is your base beer. 

The malt bill is "usually this", same yeast, same water treatment etc.  If your base beer is the same and all you're varying is the hops, the differences between them may be more subtle than you expect.  It might not be a huge difference.  Maybe start varying the base beer to see what plays well with the different hops? Something light and dry with juicy citrus hops, something darker (red/black) with dank pine hops etc.  You might hit on something with that brown ale since it's something different.

Thank you, I appreciate your words of encouragement. I realize the base is pretty similar. I guess I'm learning that like you said you have to be a little more bold with changes. I caught a podcast recently where the focus hop usage and hop flavor. 
Creating a great hoppy beer may take diffrent hops from both ends of the spectrum and finding the balance. I believe the podcast was called Master Brewer, I stumbled on it looking at episodes if others like brulosophy and experimental brewing.

Brew day for the Brown ale was postponed for research.

I'm going to go more balanced with the water profile and use 100% Simcoe just ti see what happens.

Also toying with the idea of a Hazy Brown Ale.

Thanks again.

Cheers.

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