[jrhomebrewing]

I have never made an ESB but what do you guys think of what I came up with?

5 gal batch
10 lbs marris otter
1 lb crystal 60L
5 oz crystal 120L

1 oz Willamette at 60 mins
.5 oz mosaic at 15 mins
.5 mosaic at 0 mins

white lab  californian ale

I will also use phosphoric acid because our ph is about 7 and i will use super moss and yeast nutriance
I possibly will make a yeast starter too. Iv never used gelatin for finings in the secondary but im thinking about trying that too.

[rodwha]

Are you intending this to be an Americanized version? The hop schedule isn’t really what an ESB would be. In general they have a larger bittering addition and would use a British hop(s), as well as yeast. I’m guessing the crystal malts are also American?

[jrhomebrewing]

I changed the yeast to Windsor
crystal would be from briess
What hop schedule would you recommend? I dont what this to be to hoppy.

also would you ever consider adding biscuit or victory malt to this?

[Robert]

To make it really English, I would skip all the crystal malts and go with just pale ale malt.  American brewers attempting English beers use a lot of crystal because all the imports they've tried are heavily oxidized (stale) and crystal sort of imitates those flavors (and colors.)  Fresh beer in England is entirely different, and they almost never use crystal malts (except in dark beers like brown ale.) Use a large amount of bittering hops (as much as you care for) and about 1/3 as much of Goldings or another English aroma hop at 15 minutes, nothing later. Don't dry hop. Windsor should be fine.  This will get you a very English beer, which may not be what you expect!

[klickitat jim]

Which ESB should be the question. Fullers? Or Red Hook? Then we can give advice to fit.

[Phil_M]

I'd scrap the 60L crystal, and up the 120 amount to get you to whatever color you want.

Some modern British bitters use American hops, so why not do the same? Trooper has Cascade as a late addition, or at least it did. I think it included a second American hop but I don't remember which off the top of my head.

To make it really English, I would skip all the crystal malts and go with just pale ale malt.  American brewers attempting English beers use a lot of crystal because all the imports they've tried are heavily oxidized (stale) and crystal sort of imitates those flavors (and colors.)  Fresh beer in England is entirely different, and they almost never use crystal malts (except in dark beers like brown ale.)

They use crystal, just differently from how we do. Usually lower amounts and darker varieties, from what I've learned. Many of the recipes in CAMRA's "Brew Your Own British Real Ale" call for crystal malt. (It's a good book, very insightful to see home brewing from a completely different perspective. For example, the book calls for conditioning in a cask, then bottling from that.)

[Robert]

I first started brewing in England, and brewed bitters for many years before my lager fetish took over.  I'll have to check out that book, Phil.  Maybe time for a revisit. True, very tiny amounts of dark crystal may be used, but for color adjustment, like invert.  The flavor shouldn't be noticeable.

[Phil_M]

I first started brewing in England, and brewed bitters for many years before my lager fetish took over.  I'll have to check out that book, Phil.  Maybe time for a revisit. True, very tiny amounts of dark crystal may be used, but for color adjustment, like invert.  The flavor shouldn't be noticeable.

To me, the darker British crystals come across with more of a slight toffee/butterscotch flavor than the usual toasted syrup sweetness of lighter American crystals. I've also had issues with overestimating the amount of dark or extra dark crystal malt need, to the point that bitters became browns on several occasions.

I've not been to England, so you may know more of this than I. My "gauge" is Pratt Street Alehouse in Baltimore, I've been told it's one of the best places to get a British style pint on this side of the pond.

Honestly, the Brits I know personally all prefer American IPAs and Pale Ales to their own country's styles.

[Robert]

Yeah, my experience comes from when CAMRA was just saving traditional British beer, before American craft changed the scene and their advocacy became more cosmopolitan.  My advice above was decidedly old school, assuming the OP was thinking traditional English style.

[klickitat jim]

It could be argued that if a beer style requires a campaign to keep it real, maybe....

[Robert]

It could be argued that if a beer style requires a campaign to keep it real, maybe....

True in general.  But you know the story, they were in real danger, as corporate brewing consolidated, of having nothing left but one brand of adjunct lager.  Like we did back then.  To their credit they advocate for any beer worth trying now, without hangups over definitions based on ownership structure and such.

[klickitat jim]

It could be argued that if a beer style requires a campaign to keep it real, maybe....

True in general.  But you know the story, they were in real danger, as corporate brewing consolidated, of having nothing left but one brand of adjunct lager.  Like we did back then.  To their credit they advocate for any beer worth trying now, without hangups over definitions based on ownership structure and such.

You sound like Drew with Mild. But but but...

Kidding, relax. I'm with you

[jrhomebrewing]

ok so what is a traditional recipe for a 5 gal batch?

[Robert]

ok so what is a traditional recipe for a 5 gal batch?

My guidelines above will get you a traditional English beer.  As Phil_M notes you can add a little dark crystal or even black malt to get extra color, but it should be based on pale ale malt without other flavors intruding.  The traditional English approach should suit your taste as I take your comment on hoppiness: stronger beers should be maltier, not dry and hoppy, because that would make them dangerously drinkable!  So let's walk through formulating it:

You want ~11lbs malt.  That should be your Maris Otter.  Your 120 will get you a bit more color, keep it.

  How much bitterness do you want?  (I'm guessing you want a gravity in the 50s, so aim for a bitterness in the 30s to start.) Find a calculator and get that IBU level from an English type  bittering hop like Northern Brewer, Target, or actually anything not too aggressively in the style of contemporary, fruity and tropical American IPA hops. See what you have available. The Brits have always imported some US hops for bittering.

  Then add about 1/3 as much by weight of an English aroma type (Goldings, Challenger, etc or even Styrians or US Willamette) at 15 min. 

Brew it, try it, and then adjust the recipe from there for your next batch to suit your taste. The principles of traditional British pale ale brewing lie in that outline of grist formulation and hop schedule.  Make it your own from there. You are the brewer and the consumer!

(I know you asked for a recipe, but really an _approach_ you can apply will serve you better, I think!)

[hopfenundmalz]

The Sept-Oct 2008 has an article by John Keeling, Head brewer at Fullers, on how to brew Fullers ESB.
Malt is 95% pale, 5% crystal with a touch of chocolate for color.
Hops are target in the boil for bittering, Northdown and Challenger as late boil, Golding and Target in the fermenter (!), and Goldings as dry hops. No amounts given.
Water is Burtonized.

Hope that helps.