Author Topic: Shaken not stirred for Lager  (Read 1530 times)

Offline yso191

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1785
  • Yakima, WA
    • View Profile
Shaken not stirred for Lager
« on: March 29, 2018, 05:14:39 AM »
I am going to do a Czech Pale Premium Lager next.  I follow Mark's strategy of using a large vessel to shake the wort/yeast and then pitch the lot into the fermenter ~6 hours later.

What is the thinking with lagers?  My thought is to step it up with 4 iterations, i.e.: pitch a pack of yeast into a quart of wort, wait till it is finished fermenting that, decant and go again, timing the last for brew day.

Am I missing anything?  What do you do?
Steve
All Hands Brewing
BJCP #D1667

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Re: Shaken not stirred for Lager
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2018, 07:41:20 AM »
If the yeast is fresh, do it once. There is a maximum density of yeast in a given volume. You’d just continually maintain that count.

Offline HydraulicSammich

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
  • Logan, UT
    • View Profile
Re: Shaken not stirred for Lager
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2018, 12:54:53 PM »
Would you need to pitch twice as much yeast, two packs, in the shaken quart? In keeping with the twice as much yeast thought for a lager.
AHA Member 900001775

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Re: Shaken not stirred for Lager
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2018, 01:11:56 PM »
Adding more yeast won’t change the fact that the starter will hit max density and start fermenting, it will just happen sooner in the starter.

Offline yso191

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1785
  • Yakima, WA
    • View Profile
Re: Shaken not stirred for Lager
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2018, 02:05:40 PM »
If the yeast is fresh, do it once. There is a maximum density of yeast in a given volume. You’d just continually maintain that count.

Interesting.  I may need to abandon this method for the old 5 liter Erlenmeyer on a stir plate to get the cell count I want.
Steve
All Hands Brewing
BJCP #D1667

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Shaken not stirred for Lager
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2018, 02:15:26 PM »
That’s cool man. You don’t need to make a massive starter, but do what you need to do.

Jim, do any lagers lately?

Offline HydraulicSammich

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
  • Logan, UT
    • View Profile
Re: Shaken not stirred for Lager
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2018, 04:29:53 PM »
Do I understand then, one yeast pack shaken starter, will reach the desired density in the wort with plenty of time to properly ferment?
AHA Member 900001775

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Re: Shaken not stirred for Lager
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2018, 04:40:53 PM »
It’s worked for me and others. The idea is to pitch when the yeast is in exponential growth. Underpitch by half and the issue is gone in 90min, under pitch by 4 and your are good at 3 hours.

I’m sure I’ll be corrected, but pitch rates are from slurry with no starter for commercial breweries that are simply pumping yeast from a brink.

Offline klickitat jim

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8479
    • View Profile
Re: Shaken not stirred for Lager
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2018, 07:07:33 PM »
That’s cool man. You don’t need to make a massive starter, but do what you need to do.

Jim, do any lagers lately?
For 6gal lager or ales or high gravity ales, i use 1 smack pack on 1200ml oxygenated starter made morning of brew day, run at main beer pitching temp, pitch the whole thing that night. Massive ales get extra oxygen. I used to use two starters for lagers but found it's not necessary.

I use oxygen for starters and the beer.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 07:44:38 PM by klickitat jim »

Offline yso191

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1785
  • Yakima, WA
    • View Profile
Re: Shaken not stirred for Lager
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2018, 08:51:06 PM »
Thanks Jim
Steve
All Hands Brewing
BJCP #D1667

Offline klickitat jim

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8479
    • View Profile
Re: Shaken not stirred for Lager
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2018, 10:51:14 PM »
Welcome. When I do lagers I chill my canned 1.040 in my fermentor chest to 50F the night before. So on brew day the yeast goes from fridge to 50F starter to 50F main beer. At about 50% ADF I pull the temp probe from the beer to ambient and bump the chest temp to 68F. Letting the beer free rise to 68 ambient. This works reliably for me.

Offline yso191

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1785
  • Yakima, WA
    • View Profile
Re: Shaken not stirred for Lager
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2018, 12:24:25 AM »
Welcome. When I do lagers I chill my canned 1.040 in my fermentor chest to 50F the night before. So on brew day the yeast goes from fridge to 50F starter to 50F main beer. At about 50% ADF I pull the temp probe from the beer to ambient and bump the chest temp to 68F. Letting the beer free rise to 68 ambient. This works reliably for me.

I do that exact thing for my ales.  I just don't do many lagers... and none since I started doing the 'shaken not stirred' method.  Now I just wish I could find some Wyeast 2001.
Steve
All Hands Brewing
BJCP #D1667

Offline Robert

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1681
    • View Profile
Re: Shaken not stirred for Lager
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2018, 12:38:29 AM »
Welcome. When I do lagers I chill my canned 1.040 in my fermentor chest to 50F the night before. So on brew day the yeast goes from fridge to 50F starter to 50F main beer. At about 50% ADF I pull the temp probe from the beer to ambient and bump the chest temp to 68F. Letting the beer free rise to 68 ambient. This works reliably for me.

I do that exact thing for my ales.  I just don't do many lagers... and none since I started doing the 'shaken not stirred' method.  Now I just wish I could find some Wyeast 2001.
WLP800 is also Urquell H-strain, same as WY2001.  I think I recall LHBS said the Wyeast is either being discontinued or shifted to a specialty, not always available

EDIT Checked their site, it's now Private  Collection, the limited release line
« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 12:57:19 AM by Robert »
Rob
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline klickitat jim

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8479
    • View Profile
Re: Shaken not stirred for Lager
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2018, 01:02:30 AM »
2206 is pretty hard to beat, just sayin

Offline yso191

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1785
  • Yakima, WA
    • View Profile
Re: Shaken not stirred for Lager
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2018, 03:40:50 PM »
2206 is pretty hard to beat, just sayin

What do you like about it?
Steve
All Hands Brewing
BJCP #D1667