Author Topic: Why do all my hoppy beers taste the same?  (Read 832 times)

Offline curtdogg

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Why do all my hoppy beers taste the same?
« on: March 29, 2018, 06:38:42 PM »
My hoppy beers have similar flavors and I'm not sure why.

My malt bill generally consist of
A 80/20 ratio of 2 row and Munich or
Marris Otter and Honey malt.
Last batch was 60/30/10 2 row, Pilsner and Munich. The beers have been in the same ballpark color wise.

I have used combinations of  Mosaic and Citra. Falconers flight and Amarillo. Since, centennial, Citra. Even 100%Citra.
To start I do a 60 min addition of Warrior for approx 30ibu. Sometimes I'll add a 30 min addition if I have enough hops but most additions are at 20, 10 and whirlpool. I generally shoot for a 1:1 IBU/SG ratio.
I have dry hopped during and after fermentation and or in the keg.
They all have a similar flavor and aroma.

I always mash between 149-152, mash pH is between 5.3-5.4.

Water profile is usually in the ballpark of
75-100 ppm calcium
10 ppm sodium and magnesium
250-300 ppm sulfate
50-75 ppm chloride
I boil for 60 min and my post boil wort is usually below pH 5.0

I use an immersion chiller, I cool the wort as quick as possible. I'll let the wort come down to pitching temp (70f) in my ferm chamber then pitch either US05 or WLP001.
I start fermentation at 65-68f hold for 7 days then ramp to 70-72f in the last 3 days. Day 10 I'll check gravity if it's done then I'll keg the next day. I do not filter and I do not use fining in the keg.

The hop flavor is generally the same. Tangerine, orange zest, stone fruit with biterness hitting the back of my tongue. The bitterness is usually smooth and the mouth feel dry. I don't mind that. What I do mind is that I go to the trouble of creating a recipe where I think I'll get a diffrent outcome and instead the similarity is the only constant.

One thing I can say is that they usually carb up nicely have great lacing and mouth feel and are a pleasure to enjoy. I woild just like some variety in flavor.


dbeechum



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« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 06:40:46 PM by curtdogg »

Offline blatz

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Re: Why do all my hoppy beers taste the same?
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2018, 08:25:49 PM »
Amarillo, Centennial and Citra all give tangerine and orange zest to varying degrees to me ( in addition to other flavors/aromas).   Falconers Flight is a blend which includes Centennial and Citra.

Mosaic never grew on me, so I can't recall much there. 

point is you're using a lot of similar hops, and if youre going 1:1 with Citra, Citra being so oily may be dominating the other hop. 

try something a bit different, maybe simcoe and cascade (either single hop or together). 
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Offline dannyjed

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Re: Why do all my hoppy beers taste the same?
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2018, 09:52:59 PM »
I’ll second what Blatz stated. Also, I notice a great range of flavor profiles in hops from year to year or even farm to farm. So, you could also try and buy hops from some different suppliers and see if you get some different flavors and aromas.


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Dan Chisholm

Offline curtdogg

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Re: Why do all my hoppy beers taste the same?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2018, 10:04:58 PM »
Thank you for the input guys. That makes alot of sense. I thought it was possible that my brew salts may be a culprit.
I was also reading that those hops are high in Myrcene oil, Amarillo being one of the highest.

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Offline blatz

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Re: Why do all my hoppy beers taste the same?
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2018, 10:09:05 PM »
Thank you for the input guys. That makes alot of sense. I thought it was possible that my brew salts may be a culprit.
I was also reading that those hops are high in Myrcene oil, Amarillo being one of the highest.

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That’s outdated;  citra is about 60-70% vs. Amarillo around 50.  A lot of the other new age hops are also big “myrcenaries “


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Offline bucknut

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Re: Why do all my hoppy beers taste the same?
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2018, 10:12:19 PM »
Change up your yeast, and ferm temps to play with some of the many different flavors yeast can give you. I recently start using English ale type yeast to change up my ipa's a bit.

Offline curtdogg

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Re: Why do all my hoppy beers taste the same?
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2018, 10:32:52 PM »
Change up your yeast, and ferm temps to play with some of the many different flavors yeast can give you. I recently start using English ale type yeast to change up my ipa's a bit.
I have noticed alot people going with WLP London Ale 3.

Thanks for the input.

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Offline mashinary

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Re: Why do all my hoppy beers taste the same?
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2018, 10:56:19 PM »
If you're looking in to other yeast of IPA, I'd suggest American Ale II yeast. I love US-05, 1056, etc, but I AA2 is pretty fantastic. If you also feel like top cropping its a good strain for that.

Offline curtdogg

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Re: Why do all my hoppy beers taste the same?
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2018, 11:01:08 AM »
If you're looking in to other yeast of IPA, I'd suggest American Ale II yeast. I love US-05, 1056, etc, but I AA2 is pretty fantastic. If you also feel like top cropping its a good strain for that.
Have not tried that one yet.
I'm not really looking into yeast as the problem cause beer tastes similar whether it's US05, US04, WLP001, WLP002.
I have not got into top cropping, pitching on to or washing yeast yet.

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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Why do all my hoppy beers taste the same?
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2018, 11:18:04 AM »
I don't know why, but the bottom line on your original post says dbeechum. Hmmm. Maybe try using his "brewing on the ones" approach, just for fun and to see if you still get that house flavor. One base malt, maybe <10% OF one specialty malt. One bittering hop, one flavor hop.

And "maybe" your sulfate is a bit high for your taste threshold. I've found through experiment that about 150ppm is the limit for me. The other day I heard the founding brewer of a GABF gold medal IPA say that for hoppy beers he targets between 3:1 and 5:1 sulfate:chloride with a 30ppm chloride. Even at 5:1 That's still only 150ppm sulfate. Something easy to try.

Just some thoughts...
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 11:19:46 AM by klickitat jim »

Offline curtdogg

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Re: Why do all my hoppy beers taste the same?
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2018, 11:33:32 AM »
I don't know why, but the bottom line on your original post says dbeechum. Hmmm. Maybe try using his "brewing on the ones" approach, just for fun and to see if you still get that house flavor. One base malt, maybe <10% OF one specialty malt. One bittering hop, one flavor hop.

And "maybe" your sulfate is a bit high for your taste threshold. I've found through experiment that about 150ppm is the limit for me. The other day I heard the founding brewer of a GABF gold medal IPA say that for hoppy beers he targets between 3:1 and 5:1 sulfate:chloride with a 30ppm chloride. Even at 5:1 That's still only 150ppm sulfate. Something easy to try.

Just some thoughts...
I once found that if you mention names in the post they are notified.
I only remembered his at the moment.
I would have added your name,  Martin, Denny and John if I remembered there profile names.

I'm familiar with Drews video, I think I'm keeping my grist pretty simple and I try not to use more than 2 diffrent hops.
 I try to  take into account all the info but opinions vary so much I feel I have to leave it to my own research. That gets expensive and wears on the mind.

It is still in the back of my mind that I could just be over mineralizing the beer and not getting the true flavors.
So many thoughts.

I'm brewing tomorrow I'll try and adjust my salts as you suggest.

Thanks Jim

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« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 11:35:33 AM by curtdogg »

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Why do all my hoppy beers taste the same?
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2018, 11:44:29 AM »
"I try to  take into account all the info but opinions vary so much I feel I have to leave it to my own research"

Bingo!

By the way, my name does not belong in that list. I'm just a dude who loves the hobby. I'm not an expert by any stretch.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 11:50:02 AM by klickitat jim »

Offline curtdogg

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Re: Why do all my hoppy beers taste the same?
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2018, 11:48:30 AM »
"I try to  take into account all the info but opinions vary so much I feel I have to leave it to my own research"

Bingo!
After trying  so many diffrent techniques and having a similar outcome everytime there comes a point where you feel lost.

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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Why do all my hoppy beers taste the same?
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2018, 12:03:24 PM »
That's not fun. And all hobbies must be fun. You might try running one or more of your beers past a decent brewer to see if they identify it. (Not saying youre not a decent brewer, but sometimes we get ugly baby syndrome. I'm my own biggest critic) You have me thinking it's an off flavor like diacetyl. Not saying that's it, but for example only, diacetyl in moderate levels can tolerable but makes a lot of quite different beers taste quite similar.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 12:09:12 PM by klickitat jim »

Offline curtdogg

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Re: Why do all my hoppy beers taste the same?
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2018, 12:07:29 PM »
That's not fun. And all hobbies must be fun. You might try running one or more of your beers past a decent brewer to see if they identify it. You have me thinking it's an off flavor like diacetyl. Not saying that's it, but for example only, diacetyl in moderate levels can tolerable but makes a lot of quite different beers taste quite similar.
I just got some P.E.T bottles. That's the plan. Fill a couple and give them to the breweries in my area.

I'd be glad to send you one.

If we're talking cold side then it's time for me to get a stainless steel fermenter.
I've been using a big mouth bubbler now for 2 years.

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