Author Topic: Last Ditch Effort  (Read 525 times)

Offline klickitat jim

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Last Ditch Effort
« on: March 31, 2018, 09:19:45 PM »
For a few years I've been struggling to come up with a decent English pale ale. Either the yeast is too clean, or water too minerally, or just not lovin the hops. Always one thing or another. I'm giving it one last try.

I'm not trying to nail a particular style. Im looking for a beer that says 'hey, that's english', but is also just plain good for drinking without too much thought. I've never been to the UK, and likely never will go. I've tried several UK beers but obviously all have been shipped. I can only imagine what they are like fresh, so I'm not concerned really with trying to make a replica of a beer I've never had and never will. My top three UK beers, of the imports I've had, are Dark Island, Landlord, and London Pride, for what it's worth. Again, not trying to recreate any of those, but that's the zone I'm aiming at.

After some thought I've decided to make an 80's-90's APA (method-wise) but with UK ish ingredients.

6 gal
93% Simpson's GP
7% Thomas Faucet C45
No Sparge about 156F
Mellow water 90 SO4/30 Cl
~14°P
~5% abv
15g Target and 15g Challenger @60
30g Styrian Goldings @10
Wy1469 @ 65F with temp set at 68F
No dry hops

I'm pretty set on recipe, but you know the drill, you just have to post your brewing stuff for feedback.


Offline majorvices

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Re: Last Ditch Effort
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2018, 09:29:40 PM »
You had me right up to the Styrian Goldings....

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Last Ditch Effort
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2018, 09:37:12 PM »
You had me right up to the Styrian Goldings....
Honestly, I recently discovered I dislike fuggles. And ive grown meh of EKG. So I went looking for a replacement and found in Timothy Taylor's website that they use Styrian Goldings in Landlord. That, and the fact that I bought a pound, are the only reasons...

So why not, Keith?

I'm making 2 batches so I could change up one of them if it doesn't require a purchase.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Last Ditch Effort
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2018, 09:44:03 PM »
I have
Styrian Gold
Target
Challenger
Kent Gold
German Northern Brewer
Tettnanger
Hallertau Mitt
Everything else is American citrus/tropical

I was actually thinking of 15g Target 15g Challenger at 10 in the second batch...
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 09:46:09 PM by klickitat jim »

Offline Robert

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Re: Last Ditch Effort
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2018, 09:45:01 PM »
Jim, the recipe looks promising. Couldn't think of a thing to change, but: I hear you on the "yeast too clean" bit, I think that's something I never put my finger on till now.  I think I mentioned a while back I (when you were more optimistic) that I had at some point just given up, decided English beer just can't live outside its native habitat. Somehow I could get all the ingredients right, think I had the right process, but it just was missing something.  For a time I even tried "cask" beer the way they sell it for home use, and homebrewers do it, over there: in polypins,  known here as cubitainers.   So right temp, right carbonation, still just not chewy, and tartly fruity,  and musty enough, if those are the right words.  (Orange marmalade on buttered sourdough toast, that's what I want!) Your open fermentation is not doing it?  I'd hoped that might turn out to be the secret.  I'm sure it has to be something in the fermentation.
Rob
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline majorvices

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Re: Last Ditch Effort
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2018, 09:45:52 PM »
I don't really like Fuggles and Styrian Goldings is a lot like Fuggles. I actually like Challenger a lot as an aroma/flavor hop. Or I used to many years ago.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Last Ditch Effort
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2018, 09:50:17 PM »
Jim, the recipe looks promising. Couldn't think of a thing to change, but: I hear you on the "yeast too clean" bit, I think that's something I never put my finger on till now.  I think I mentioned a while back I (when you were more optimistic) that I had at some point just given up, decided English beer just can't live outside its native habitat. Somehow I could get all the ingredients right, think I had the right process, but it just was missing something.  For a time I even tried "cask" beer the way they sell it for home use, and homebrewers do it, over there: in polypins,  known here as cubitainers.   So right temp, right carbonation, still just not chewy, and tartly fruity,  and musty enough, if those are the right words.  (Orange marmalade on buttered sourdough toast, that's what I want!) Your open fermentation is not doing it?  I'd hoped that might turn out to be the secret.  I'm sure it has to be something in the fermentation.
No, the fermentation is good to go now. I think for what I'm wanting it's down to propper Crystal, hopping, and just a touch more body/malt balance

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Last Ditch Effort
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2018, 09:51:36 PM »
I don't really like Fuggles and Styrian Goldings is a lot like Fuggles. I actually like Challenger a lot as an aroma/flavor hop. Or I used to many years ago.
Ok, you've about convinced me to try Target/Challenger at 10 in the second batch

Offline Robert

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Re: Last Ditch Effort
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2018, 09:56:19 PM »
Jim, the recipe looks promising. Couldn't think of a thing to change, but: I hear you on the "yeast too clean" bit, I think that's something I never put my finger on till now.  I think I mentioned a while back I (when you were more optimistic) that I had at some point just given up, decided English beer just can't live outside its native habitat. Somehow I could get all the ingredients right, think I had the right process, but it just was missing something.  For a time I even tried "cask" beer the way they sell it for home use, and homebrewers do it, over there: in polypins,  known here as cubitainers.   So right temp, right carbonation, still just not chewy, and tartly fruity,  and musty enough, if those are the right words.  (Orange marmalade on buttered sourdough toast, that's what I want!) Your open fermentation is not doing it?  I'd hoped that might turn out to be the secret.  I'm sure it has to be something in the fermentation.
No, the fermentation is good to go now. I think for what I'm wanting it's down to propper Crystal, hopping, and just a touch more body/malt balance
Cool. If I get the courage to try bitter again I'll try open with West Yorkshire. 
Rob
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Last Ditch Effort
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2018, 10:04:09 PM »
Jim, the recipe looks promising. Couldn't think of a thing to change, but: I hear you on the "yeast too clean" bit, I think that's something I never put my finger on till now.  I think I mentioned a while back I (when you were more optimistic) that I had at some point just given up, decided English beer just can't live outside its native habitat. Somehow I could get all the ingredients right, think I had the right process, but it just was missing something.  For a time I even tried "cask" beer the way they sell it for home use, and homebrewers do it, over there: in polypins,  known here as cubitainers.   So right temp, right carbonation, still just not chewy, and tartly fruity,  and musty enough, if those are the right words.  (Orange marmalade on buttered sourdough toast, that's what I want!) Your open fermentation is not doing it?  I'd hoped that might turn out to be the secret.  I'm sure it has to be something in the fermentation.
No, the fermentation is good to go now. I think for what I'm wanting it's down to propper Crystal, hopping, and just a touch more body/malt balance
Cool. If I get the courage to try bitter again I'll try open with West Yorkshire.
This will only be my second brew day with 1469, so 2 batches so far. It definitely has a crazy cheese cake krausen. Many say it never drops, or they have to reverse rouse it to get it to drop, but I open fermented and they both drop clean on their own after 12 days. Last time I ran them at 65F, this time I'm pitching at 65F but controller set at 68F just to see what I get.

Offline Robert

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Re: Last Ditch Effort
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2018, 10:12:40 PM »
Good to know, just let it take care of itself!  Yeast makes beer, we dont.  Indeed Fuggles (and Styrian is transplanted Fuggles) has no place in pale ales IMO. I'm not a Fuggle hater, they just need to stay where they belong.  FWIW London Pride is Challenger, Goldings, Northdown and Target.  And mighty tasty.
Rob
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline Hooper

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Re: Last Ditch Effort
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2018, 10:19:09 PM »
I really like Fuller's ESB. I tried multiple times to make something similar with sub par results. I finally propagated yeast from a bottle of Fuller's...The starter smelled like Fuller's...The brews I made with that yeast turned out great. It was the same with Pilsner Urquell...I think the yeast is key in some of these styles...
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Last Ditch Effort
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2018, 10:20:32 PM »
But there's this

Offline Robert

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Re: Last Ditch Effort
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2018, 10:24:59 PM »
So you don't like Fuggles in your beer, you just like beer with Fuggles in it. Curiouser and curiouser.
Rob
Akron, Ohio

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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Last Ditch Effort
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2018, 10:35:25 PM »
I'm not putting fuggles in it. I'm just saying that somehow landlord gets away with it. I have never used Styrian Goldings yet. I dont doubt that you guys get a fuggles ish character from it, after all it has a fuggles parent. But so does cascade, and a bunch of others. I have some, so I'll give it a try. But I've already decided the 2nd batch will be challenger/target at 10 instead, if for nothing else to have a control/compare situation.