[BrewBama]

I plan to add a gram of BtB, dissolved in a bit of wort, to the boil a minute before adding the copper chiller to sanitize it (i.e., at 16 minutes; chiller in at 15 minutes).  Would that do it?


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[denny]

I plan to add a gram of BtB, dissolved in a bit of wort, to the boil a minute before adding the copper chiller to sanitize it (i.e., at 16 minutes; chiller in at 15 minutes).  Would that do it?


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FWIW, Joe told me it's better to dissolve it in water than wort.

[BrewBama]

Good copy: water.


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[ynotbrusum]

FWIW, my typical dosage is .75 grams in 14 gallons of strike water 5 minutes or so prior to mashing in (10.5-11 gallon batch of Helles for example - depending on boil length and other factors), then 2 grams of rehydrated in 10-20 ml of H2O, added at 16 minutes left in the boil.  I rehydrate for at least 20 minutes prior to adding to the boil, then use Whirlfloc and yeast nutrient at least 2 minutes or more later, then place the immersion chiller into the boil for 10 minutes (SS).

[Big Monk]

FWIW, my typical dosage is .75 grams in 14 gallons of strike water 5 minutes or so prior to mashing in (10.5-11 gallon batch of Helles for example - depending on boil length and other factors), then 2 grams of rehydrated in 10-20 ml of H2O, added at 16 minutes left in the boil.  I rehydrate for at least 20 minutes prior to adding to the boil, then use Whirlfloc and yeast nutrient at least 2 minutes or more later, then place the immersion chiller into the boil for 10 minutes (SS).

Just curious: why such low dose rates? Personal preference?

[BrewBama]

The 1 gram for my 5 gal batch pre chill plan (above) tracks with your 2 grams for 10 gal batch. I was not planning to add to the strike liquor. Why do you?


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[Big Monk]

The 1 gram for my 5 gal batch pre chill plan (above) tracks with your 2 grams for 10 gal batch. I was not planning to add to the strike liquor. Why do you?


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Gallotannins, of which BTB belongs, have a number of functions including chelating iron and copper from source water, as well as binding and precipitating foam-negative proteins and lipids that have the potential for participating in oxidative reactions downstream.

Basically, the way I see it is this: the less junk you bring into the kettle, the better. It means less hot break and cold break to be removed and it means for stable beer into the fermenter. As always, YMMV.

The reason I remarked about ynotbrosum’s dose rates above is that, at least for the Wyeast rates (they undoubtedly are sourcing thier BTB from Ajinomoto), he is underdosing:

Recommended rates: 6.84 g/hl (0.068 g/l) for Mash

0.75 g / 14 gallon = 0.75 g / ~52 l = 0.014 g/l which is a tad low IME.

[ynotbrusum]

FWIW, my typical dosage is .75 grams in 14 gallons of strike water 5 minutes or so prior to mashing in (10.5-11 gallon batch of Helles for example - depending on boil length and other factors), then 2 grams of rehydrated in 10-20 ml of H2O, added at 16 minutes left in the boil.  I rehydrate for at least 20 minutes prior to adding to the boil, then use Whirlfloc and yeast nutrient at least 2 minutes or more later, then place the immersion chiller into the boil for 10 minutes (SS).

Just curious: why such low dose rates? Personal preference?

Like most things of this sort, I start low and add if necessary (my NaMeta is 1 gram in the same strike, e.g.).  I preboil and chill, then HERMS on a pretty tight system.

The 1 gram for my 5 gal batch pre chill plan (above) tracks with your 2 grams for 10 gal batch. I was not planning to add to the strike liquor. Why do you?


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I use RO from my well and have about 13 ppm TDS - some of it iron, I fear, so I like that the BTB chelates it out - I see it in a light pink tinge to my grain bed.

I could be deada$$ wrong, but my Helles took a second in the Chicago region for this year’s NHC, so it seems to be a personal sweet spot that I have settled on - that’s why I like this hobby and those who share here - some things are just found to be personal preference through trial and error.  But you get great info to start with.

[Big Monk]

FWIW, my typical dosage is .75 grams in 14 gallons of strike water 5 minutes or so prior to mashing in (10.5-11 gallon batch of Helles for example - depending on boil length and other factors), then 2 grams of rehydrated in 10-20 ml of H2O, added at 16 minutes left in the boil.  I rehydrate for at least 20 minutes prior to adding to the boil, then use Whirlfloc and yeast nutrient at least 2 minutes or more later, then place the immersion chiller into the boil for 10 minutes (SS).

Just curious: why such low dose rates? Personal preference?

Like most things of this sort, I start low and add if necessary (my NaMeta is 1 gram in the same strike, e.g.).  I preboil and chill, then HERMS on a pretty tight system.

The 1 gram for my 5 gal batch pre chill plan (above) tracks with your 2 grams for 10 gal batch. I was not planning to add to the strike liquor. Why do you?


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I use RO from my well and have about 13 ppm TDS - some of it iron, I fear, so I like that the BTB chelates it out - I see it in a light pink tinge to my grain bed.

I could be deada$$ wrong, but my Helles took a second in the Chicago region for this year’s NHC, so it seems to be a personal sweet spot that I have settled on - that’s why I like this hobby and those who share here - some things are just found to be personal preference through trial and error.  But you get great info to start with.

Right on man. I just wanted to check.

[BrewBama]

...

Basically, the way I see it is this: the less junk you bring into the kettle, the better. It means less hot break and cold break to be removed and it means for stable beer into the fermenter. As always, YMMV.

...

+1. ...and good stuff (further up).

@ ynotbrusum: Thx for the explanation. Makes sense to me.


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[ynotbrusum]

Went back to the Ajinomoto website and it has a big range to recommended use, so I wasn’t all that experimental, after all.  In any event, Cheers to BTB:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0094/8192/files/Brewtan_B_-_Datasheet_v1.0.pdf?792368829017356662

[Big Monk]

Went back to the Ajinomoto website and it has a big range to recommended use, so I wasn’t all that experimental, after all.  In any event, Cheers to BTB:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0094/8192/files/Brewtan_B_-_Datasheet_v1.0.pdf?792368829017356662

To further muddy the waters, I use the Wyeast numbers (there is also some very concise information about how it works) which are pretty much in line with the Joe F. recommendations:

https://wyeastlab.com/brewtan

[Robert]

So Big Monk's quote from Withouk, et al. above says 5g/hL is more than sufficient in the boil, lower than th 6.84 recommended (apparently) by Wyeast and within the 2-6g/hL given by Ajinomoto.   I'll go with that guidance.

Still not finding any more on mash beyond the same 2-6 in Ajinomoto's fact sheet, etc.  My water is coming through at 3ppm TDS, so I'm not the least bit worried about iron and copper. I'm willing to try the start low, go up method, but I'm still wondering if it's even needed here: 

I get the idea that I can start removing protein at this early stage.  But it seems to me that the same end result will be achieved with a boil addition.  However: If I can really keep lipids out of the boil, I'm in.  But I have only ever seen the assertion that BTB has this function in posts on the forum, without attribution.  I do trust people here.  But, who's got the citation?  Where does this come from?  I need evidence, people, sorry, I question everything.

[Big Monk]

So Big Monk's quote from Withouk, et al. above says 5g/hL is more than sufficient in the boil, lower than th 6.84 recommended (apparently) by Wyeast and within the 2-6g/hL given by Ajinomoto.   I'll go with that guidance.

Still not finding any more on mash beyond the same 2-6 in Ajinomoto's fact sheet, etc.  My water is coming through at 3ppm TDS, so I'm not the least bit worried about iron and copper. I'm willing to try the start low, go up method, but I'm still wondering if it's even needed here: 

I get the idea that I can start removing protein at this early stage.  But it seems to me that the same end result will be achieved with a boil addition.  However: If I can really keep lipids out of the boil, I'm in.  But I have only ever seen the assertion that BTB has this function in posts on the forum, without attribution.  I do trust people here.  But, who's got the citation?  Where does this come from?  I need evidence, people, sorry, I question everything.

What originally started me down the path of researching the protein/lipid benefits was here:

https://wyeastlab.com/brewtan

When I read that I researched more. I do have the scientific papers to back those claims up, but they are in with the 200+ academic and technical papers and 30+ brewing textbooks that Bryan and I have in our collaborative library. I found some sources today and I’ll post those and the lipid information when I get it together.

[Robert]

^^^^
Thanks, I look forward to it.  My inclination is to do nothing until I understand what I'm doing, then use the minimum effective dose.  The less BTB I use, the less calcium I lose (and you know by now I love my calcium) which means I can add less of that too...