Author Topic: Invincible Rumors  (Read 2529 times)

Offline klickitat jim

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Invincible Rumors
« on: April 06, 2018, 04:33:40 AM »
Listening to a popular podcast that I really like and heard this... 'well, they say that Guinness adds old sour beer to new batches to get that sourness'. (Paraphrasing, because I'm not going to listen back for a direct transcription.  This ain't SCOTUS). I was listening along and driving along and found myself blurting out "Bull****". Not a direct quote, I didn't say "bull asterisk asterisk asterisk asterisk"

How can that rumor still be around? Who on earth really thinks Guinness would really contaminate their beer as a legit method of dropping the pH a couple tenths? I once heard an interview with a Guinness brewer who wouldn't outright deny it, but his response was something like "I heard we put a dead cow in the mash."

What's the immortal rumor that drives you nutz?

Ps, I still enjoy the show. I'm not suggesting a lynching
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 06:10:58 AM by klickitat jim »

Offline bjanat

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Re: Invincible Rumors
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2018, 08:33:52 AM »
https://www.fivebladesbrewing.com/guinness-secrets-revealed/

I’ve tried the separate mash, with lactic acid to get the ph down for the light colored mash, and added the cold brewed black sparging water made with roasted barley. This had chalk to avoid low ph. Happy with the result, smooth.

Next time I’ll try with sauergut instead of lactic acid.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Invincible Rumors
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2018, 10:36:23 AM »
https://www.fivebladesbrewing.com/guinness-secrets-revealed/

I’ve tried the separate mash, with lactic acid to get the ph down for the light colored mash, and added the cold brewed black sparging water made with roasted barley. This had chalk to avoid low ph. Happy with the result, smooth.

Next time I’ll try with sauergut instead of lactic acid.
There's no mention of what temp they mash the dead cow at. Some secrets will remain secret I guess.

Offline Robert

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Re: Invincible Rumors
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2018, 11:36:06 AM »
Guinness put out a commemorative 250th anniversary book in which they themselves claimed they still vat a portion of the beer for FES (and FES only.) Maybe they do, maybe they don't.  All their beer was once a blend of stale and mild, but that's a different process with a different purpose than the myth that will not die assumes. 

There are so many myths that get my dander up I'll have to think and narrow it down to the worst.
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Offline ethinson

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Re: Invincible Rumors
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2018, 11:51:18 AM »
The recent flurry of articles about the GMO yeast making hop oils, one of them trotted out the long since busted "hoppy beers were invented to survive the trip to India" myth again.. like the Guinness thing, while there is a slight grain of truth too it, hopped pale ales existed long before they sent anything to India, 90% of what got shipped over there was porter/stout and not pale ale because the normal soldiers (lower class) didn't drink pale ales. Also, to continue to try to link 18th century pale ales with modern English pale ale and IPA, much less crazy American IPA is foolish.

It also drives me bonkers (as a food scientist) when anyone tries to claim anything in beer, whether it be GMO grain, GMO yeast, calcium carbonate, sugar, iron, mercury, BPA in cans, whatever is dangerous and is *fill in the blank* (killing you, stunting growth, causing weight gain etc).  Alcohol is poisonous.  No matter what is in beer... if you drink enough of it, the alcohol will kill you long before anything else.
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Invincible Rumors
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2018, 12:00:40 PM »
Well, it depends on what 'sour' means.

I'm not in the camp that says that Guinness biologically sours wort and adds it to their product. All the evidence that I've gathered suggests that they take their rainwater-quality water supply and steep roast barley in that to create a liquid similar to Sinamar that happens to have a pH in the low 4 range. Some tasters might consider that acidic liquid to have a 'sour' note.
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Invincible Rumors
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2018, 06:28:08 PM »
I made an interesting dry stout recently that was well received:

After making a standard dry stout all grain batch, I chilled the wort and ran off about 20-22 ounces into a half gallon glass jug, in which I pitched Omega’s All the Bretts and fermented it for about 10 days IIRC.  The balance was fermented regularly with Irish Ale Yeast.  When the regular batch was done fermenting, I racked the small batch into a large saucepan and heated the small batch to 170F. (Thinking it would kill off the Brett - and I assume that it did).

Then I racked both parts  to the serving keg and chilled and carbed it.

The mixture had a slight funk and very light sour.  I served it for a St. Paddy’s Day gathering and it went pretty quick once people got up the nerve to drink it.  I don’t know that it replicated a Guinness from the 1800’s, but it was pretty tasty.
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Re: Invincible Rumors
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2018, 06:48:45 PM »
On the EB episode coming out next Wed. we talk about 8 myths about lambic
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Offline Wilbur

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Re: Invincible Rumors
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2018, 07:06:35 PM »
Some people say rappers are invincible. They're not. They're vincible.
https://youtu.be/EuJzSTNDUGI

GMO stuff annoys me, but we probably shouldn't crack open that can of worms.

Is one of the lambic myths that they're made with real bits of lamb? Or is that not a lambmyth?
Lambmyth is a trademark of Wilbur, any use without his permission is forbidden. Get ready for Lambmyth, the only beer make with real bits of lamb! Other brewers use artifical lamb, but Wilbur only uses organic, free range, non GMO heritage lambs for the most authentic experience!

I don't remember which ones, but I feel like I hear some bad info thrown out at club meetings every once in a while. Never sure how to jump in without sounding like a jerk.

Offline yso191

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Re: Invincible Rumors
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2018, 07:15:27 PM »
This is only related but... the Beer myth that really makes crazy is: Beer is best served in a frosted glass/mug.  Argh!

I’m looking at YOU Famous Dave’s.
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Offline Big Monk

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Re: Invincible Rumors
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2018, 12:59:45 AM »
I think the “commercial practices don’t apply at our level” one is especially stubborn. It is true that many commercial practices can’t be DIRECTLY applied at our level, but dismissing those high level concepts outright has always seemed odd to me.

The truth of the matter is that all commercial concepts apply at the homebrew level as that is likely where we got them from. The fact that you may have to alter some of the process points to apply it is a bit implicit but there nonetheless. I’d say that we rarely drive innovation from our level to the commercial level with the same frequency as the commercial level has given us concepts and techniques.

Just my $0.02.
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Offline narcout

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Re: Invincible Rumors
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2018, 03:06:57 AM »
The truth of the matter is that all commercial concepts apply at the homebrew level as that is likely where we got them from.

I don't see why it has to be an all or nothing proposition.  I think some things are applicable and some aren't. 
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Offline Stevie

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Re: Invincible Rumors
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2018, 04:46:01 AM »
The truth of the matter is that all commercial concepts apply at the homebrew level as that is likely where we got them from.

I don't see why it has to be an all or nothing proposition.  I think some things are applicable and some aren't.
I don’t think that is what he is saying.

Offline Wilbur

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Re: Invincible Rumors
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2018, 05:14:28 AM »
The truth of the matter is that all commercial concepts apply at the homebrew level as that is likely where we got them from.

I don't see why it has to be an all or nothing proposition.  I think some things are applicable and some aren't.
I don’t think that is what he is saying.
Inconceivable!

I really hope you had a princess Bride reference going on.

BIAB is amazing, but doing it at a production level and be disastrous. However, pitching a vitality starter with 10% of the required yeast would probably disastrous. I'd love to hear what the thought behind this was but doing anything without a specific reason behind it is not great.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Invincible Rumors
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2018, 09:44:29 AM »
The truth of the matter is that all commercial concepts apply at the homebrew level as that is likely where we got them from.

I don't see why it has to be an all or nothing proposition.  I think some things are applicable and some aren't.
I don’t think that is what he is saying.
Inconceivable!

I really hope you had a princess Bride reference going on.

BIAB is amazing, but doing it at a production level and be disastrous. However, pitching a vitality starter with 10% of the required yeast would probably disastrous. I'd love to hear what the thought behind this was but doing anything without a specific reason behind it is not great.
Maybe. I've heard an interview with Dan Gordon of Gordon Biersch talking about how they use vitality pitches and how they propagate.

But for all i know they are using 100 vials in 50 gallons of starter on a giant stir plate for 10bbl.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 11:45:58 AM by klickitat jim »