Author Topic: Interesting Data from the yeast Genome Study  (Read 2861 times)

Online hopfenundmalz

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Interesting Data from the yeast Genome Study
« on: May 02, 2018, 11:43:58 PM »
I came across a post on “Milk the Funk” that started some travel down a rabbit hole. I know from a previous dive down the yeast genome rabbit hole that Wyeast 1056 was not the same as WLP-001. The first link says 1056 is the same as Wlp-051.
The second link is from White Labs. Go to Wlp-051. It says that it is now classified as a Sach. Pastorianus strain I.e. a lager strain. So 1056 and WLP-051 are said to be classified as lager strains now. Some lager strains were previously said to be found as ale strains.
Mind blown!

Oh, and yeast originated in China. Saw that before.

The Chico strain has been said to be from Ballantine’s “beer” brewery, the Bry-97/Wlp-051 was from the Ballantine Ale Brewery. Now it is said that the Ale yeast is actually a lager yeast.  If S. Cervisiae was still active, I would be interested on his take on this.

http://beer.suregork.com/?p=4000

https://www.whitelabs.com/sites/default/files/White%20Labs%202018%20Catalog.pdf

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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Interesting Data from the yeast Genome Study
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2018, 11:48:47 PM »
I'm not Mark, but I'm not at all surprised by the idea that 1056 might be a lager strain. If not it's an ale strain that is so clean it might as well be, and it's an ale strain that works well at 50F...

Edit:
Once this is settled, it will rock the beer world when people are forced to admit that SNPA is actually an American Pilsner.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 11:58:20 PM by klickitat jim »

Online hopfenundmalz

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Re: Interesting Data from the yeast Genome Study
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2018, 12:10:23 AM »
I'm not Mark, but I'm not at all surprised by the idea that 1056 might be a lager strain. If not it's an ale strain that is so clean it might as well be, and it's an ale strain that works well at 50F...

Edit:
Once this is settled, it will rock the beer world when people are forced to admit that SNPA is actually an American Pilsner.

The Chico strain has been said to be similar to WLP-001, 1056 was found to be different from 001.

Founders said that they use 1056 at the NHC in Grand Rapids. That is the rock the beer world fact, Founders is a Lager Brewey! Well if you think yeast defines a lager or ale brewery.

One thing that has been said, in a few years we will rethink the difference between Ales and lagers.
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Offline dannyjed

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Re: Interesting Data from the yeast Genome Study
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2018, 12:22:16 AM »
Very interesting information. I currently have been just using WY 1056 and WY 2124 over and over again. I guess I’ve been using two Lager strains or maybe 2124 is actually an Ale strain because I’ve fermented it at 60-62 and it was still clean.


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Offline Robert

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Re: Interesting Data from the yeast Genome Study
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2018, 12:23:18 AM »
I just tried Fat Heads new seasonal, Starlight German Lager.  Of all the macro-ish craft lagers on the scene lately, this was far and away the cleanest and most authentically lager-like I've tried.  Now, their other lagers are all made with 34/70.  Imagine my surprise when I went to Fat Heads website and found this one lists the yeast as "American Ale."  Or, would have been surprised if I hadn't also seen some of these genomics studies.  An interesting xBmt would be a four-way split, two yeasts (34/70 and 1056) and two temps ("lager" and "ale.")
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Interesting Data from the yeast Genome Study
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2018, 12:25:47 AM »
I guess you had some typos then. You say 1056 = 051 = bry-97 = Chico. But Chico does not equal 1056?

Things that are equal to other things are also equal to eachother, usually.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 12:29:53 AM by klickitat jim »

Offline Phil_M

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Re: Interesting Data from the yeast Genome Study
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2018, 12:55:40 AM »
I'm really curious where the ale/lager line will be redrawn, and how that line is split when it comes to top cropping...

As a rule, I tend to not care for warm bottom fermenting "ale" strains, 1450 being a notable standard exception and 1056 being the standard of dislike. Going to be interesting if this data shows me a thread to tie all this together...
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Online hopfenundmalz

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Re: Interesting Data from the yeast Genome Study
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2018, 12:57:57 AM »
I guess you had some typos then. You say 1056 = 051 = bry-97 = Chico. But Chico does not equal 1056?

Things that are equal to other things are also equal to eachother, usually.

I said this.
“The Chico strain has been said to be from Ballantine’s “beer” brewery, the Bry-97/Wlp-051 was from the Ballantine Ale Brewery. Now it is said that the Ale yeast is actually a lager yeast.  If S. Cervisiae was still active, I would be interested on his take on this.”
Mark had said Chico=BRY-96 from the beer brewery. The Ale Brewery used BRY-97 which is the same as WLP-051 (Anchors “Ale” strain. If BRY-97 as dry strain is a lager, the long lag times may be due to that, I.e. we need to pitch a lot more.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Interesting Data from the yeast Genome Study
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2018, 01:04:41 AM »
I guess you had some typos then. You say 1056 = 051 = bry-97 = Chico. But Chico does not equal 1056?

Things that are equal to other things are also equal to eachother, usually.

I said this.
“The Chico strain has been said to be from Ballantine’s “beer” brewery, the Bry-97/Wlp-051 was from the Ballantine Ale Brewery. Now it is said that the Ale yeast is actually a lager yeast.  If S. Cervisiae was still active, I would be interested on his take on this.”
Mark had said Chico=BRY-96 from the beer brewery. The Ale Brewery used BRY-97 which is the same as WLP-051 (Anchors “Ale” strain. If BRY-97 as dry strain is a lager, the long lag times may be due to that, I.e. we need to pitch a lot more.
I was going off this... "The first link says 1056 is the same as Wlp-051.
The second link is from White Labs. Go to Wlp-051. It says that it is now classified as a Sach. Pastorianus strain I.e. a lager strain. So 1056 and WLP-051 are said to be classified as lager strains now." In conjunction with the rest. So... whatever.

Offline a10t2

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Re: Interesting Data from the yeast Genome Study
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2018, 01:22:08 AM »
The Ale Brewery used BRY-97 which is the same as WLP-051 (Anchors “Ale” strain.

Well now I just want to know what BSI-72/WY1272 is...
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: Interesting Data from the yeast Genome Study
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2018, 01:56:37 AM »
All confusion aside, this is interesting. 


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Re: Interesting Data from the yeast Genome Study
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2018, 02:25:06 AM »
The Ale Brewery used BRY-97 which is the same as WLP-051 (Anchors “Ale” strain.

Well now I just want to know what BSI-72/WY1272 is...
Yeah same here.
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Re: Interesting Data from the yeast Genome Study
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2018, 02:30:51 AM »
I guess you had some typos then. You say 1056 = 051 = bry-97 = Chico. But Chico does not equal 1056?

Things that are equal to other things are also equal to eachother, usually.

I said this.
“The Chico strain has been said to be from Ballantine’s “beer” brewery, the Bry-97/Wlp-051 was from the Ballantine Ale Brewery. Now it is said that the Ale yeast is actually a lager yeast.  If S. Cervisiae was still active, I would be interested on his take on this.”
Mark had said Chico=BRY-96 from the beer brewery. The Ale Brewery used BRY-97 which is the same as WLP-051 (Anchors “Ale” strain. If BRY-97 as dry strain is a lager, the long lag times may be due to that, I.e. we need to pitch a lot more.
I was going off this... "The first link says 1056 is the same as Wlp-051.
The second link is from White Labs. Go to Wlp-051. It says that it is now classified as a Sach. Pastorianus strain I.e. a lager strain. So 1056 and WLP-051 are said to be classified as lager strains now." In conjunction with the rest. So... whatever.

If all of the study is correct, then.

WLP-051=Wyeat 1056= BRY-97 = Ballantine’s Ale strain/ Anchor’s Ale strain, which is now found to be a lager strain.

WLP-001 = BRY-96 = Ballantine’s Beer Strain = Chico Ale yeast. Still classified as Ale as far as I know.

Hope this helps.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Interesting Data from the yeast Genome Study
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2018, 02:41:43 AM »
Works for me thanks!

Offline Robert

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Re: Interesting Data from the yeast Genome Study
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2018, 04:52:18 PM »
I'm not Mark, but I'm not at all surprised by the idea that 1056 might be a lager strain. If not it's an ale strain that is so clean it might as well be, and it's an ale strain that works well at 50F...

Edit:
Once this is settled, it will rock the beer world when people are forced to admit that SNPA is actually an American Pilsner.

Any idea, anybody, if it works well pitched at 50°F, maybe at lager pitch rates, or does it just keep going if temperature is dropped during fermentation?  Using 2124 as my "house" strain, I know it can be warmed up to make old-timey American "ales" (cream ale, etc.)  Kind of curious if 1056 could be used the other way around, in a conventional lager fermentation.
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