[brew.guru]

I'm new to this forum, but have been brewing for 30 years. I was shocked to learn about a farming practice call "crop desiccation" which is used on barley... look it up on Wikipedia. This practice basically soaks our grains with Roundup (glysophate) a few days prior to harvest. Upon learning this I am going organic for all my grains. But my question is:
    "Has anyone tested the non-organic malt for glysophate?"

[kramerog]

Much of American barley for brewing is grown in the arid Western states so I would imagine that dessication would not be widely practiced for malting barley.  England has a moist climate so maybe Roundup would be used there more commonly?  Just a guess. 

In an ongoing trial for Roundup, Pilliod v Monsanto,  one of the issues is that Roundup used to contain polyethoxylated tallow amine, a surfactant which makes Roundup 50 times more toxic to the people who apply the Roundup - think of Starsan which contains a surfactant to make the phosphoric acid more potent.  Therefore, thoretically Roundup residues might not be all that bad.  Still I would prefer not to consume Roundup.

[Robert]

There is also no guarantee that certified organic crops have not been subjected to overspray or runoff from nearby farms using conventional practices.  Wind a rain do not observe property boundaries.

[hopfenundmalz]

This has come up in some press and beer forums.

A barley grower said he does not do this.

[narcout]

I'm wary of trusting internet sources for this kind of info, but I did find this release from the American Malting Barley Association.  Maybe it could be used as a jumping off point for further research.

http://ambainc.org/stream/item/6/amba-opposes-post-heading-treatments-on-grains

"Glyphosate is not labeled for post-heading application on malting barley in the United States as a pre-harvest aid to kill weeds, as a desiccant to dry down the crop, or for any other reason.

Dr. Michael P. Davis, AMBA President, notes that 'our members will not knowingly buy malting barley, wheat or other grains, regardless of the grain’s origin, that are treated after heading with these chemicals and residue testing is being performed.' "

[JD5055]

In addition to brewing I'm an organic gardener. I have to say this list of members from the previous mentioned link makes me feel better about the brewing industry as a whole. Which opens up the next question. Is brewers corn and wheat treated this way and non-GMO?

http://ambainc.org/media/AMBA_PDFs/About/AMBA_Overview.pdf

[Wilbur]

In addition to brewing I'm an organic gardener. I have to say this list of members from the previous mentioned link makes me feel better about the brewing industry as a whole. Which opens up the next question. Is brewers corn and wheat treated this way and non-GMO?

http://ambainc.org/media/AMBA_PDFs/About/AMBA_Overview.pdf

Are you asking about transgenic or mutagenic GMOs?  Mutagenic GMOs, where seeds or young plants are blasted with chemicals or radiation to generate mutations, include Golden Promise barley and Stadley wheat. I'm not sure if Stadler wheat is used in brewing.

In the US, there are no transgenic species of wheat or barley for commercial use in beer production. As US defines GMO as transgenic only, according to the US goverment there are no GMO barley or wheat used in beer production. In contrast, the EU includes mutagenic crops as GMO.
http://ambainc.org/content/58/gm-statements

Not sure about corn, but I'd ask if it really matters if a variety is carefully sculpted, blasted with chemicals or radiation, or randomly selected by nature if it makes good beer.

[Robert]

IIRC one reason Heineken switched to an all barley recipe a few years ago (raw barley as the adjunct) was that they could not guarantee to European consumers that their supplies of corn (maize) sourced on the open market would not include transgenic varieties, which were potentially coming from the US.  Memory only, no citation.  Someone else may have the details straight, or know if this was a valid, current concern or just a future contingency.

[BrewBama]

That would track with my experience living in Europe: they are very serious about full disclosure of GMO, hormones, etc.  They are hypersensitive about US products for that reason.


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[Robert]

That would track with my experience living in Europe: they are very serious about full disclosure of GMO, hormones, etc.  They are hypersensitive about US products for that reason.


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And yet they don't blink at irradiation, which freaks out Americans.  Go figure.   But that's another issue, and maybe they are more rational in worrying about processes that may have permanent effects, and potentially on more than the product already in package.

[Wilbur]

That would track with my experience living in Europe: they are very serious about full disclosure of GMO, hormones, etc.  They are hypersensitive about US products for that reason.


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And yet they don't blink at irradiation, which freaks out Americans.  Go figure.   But that's another issue, and maybe they are more rational in worrying about processes that may have permanent effects, and potentially on more than the product already in package.

To be fair, mutagenics uses radiation or chemical to produce a mutation in young plants or seeds. These seeds or plants are then propagated after it is determined if the new variety is viable and produces an acceptable product. The seeds aren't radioactive after the initial trials.

To get an idea of the pain that comes from developing crop varieties, you can look at Stan Hieronymous' writeup of the process shown below (Courtesy Craftbeer.com). It's similar to what you'd have for any crop. If you're breeding traditionally or using mutagenesis techniques to develop varieties, you're undergoing huge masses of trials and hoping that you can find a few that fit what you need with mutating a handful of other genes that will produce a bad result. Conversely, with a transgenic approach you change one or two things at a time, and cut down on the time and resources it takes to make something workable.

Year 0: Make crosses.

Year 1: Seedlings are grown in greenhouses and selected for powdery mildew resistance

Years 2-4: Plants are field-assessed, evaluated and harvested, chemically analyzed. The Oregon Hop Commission and the Hop Research Council decide which look promising. The HRC was established in 1979 by brewers, dealers, and growers to fund and direct U.S. hop research. Boston Beer Company and Sierra Nevada Brewing became members relatively recently, and the Brewers Association joined the HRC in January 2012.

Years: 5-8: Selections grown on multi-hill plots. Plots harvested for accurate yield date. Evaluation continues, complete data collected. Samples sent to breweries for pilot brews. Breweries select favorites.

Years 9-???: Selections grown in commercial farm plot (15-30 hills, or one-acre plots). Tested at multiple breweries. Brewers accept or reject the hop.

(Taken from: https://www.craftbeer.com/craft-beer-muses/birth-of-a-hop)

Anyway, time for me to get off my soapbox. Glad to learn more about pesticide and herbicide controls from the AMBA.