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Author Topic: Simple method method for brewing with RO water?  (Read 3427 times)

Offline dzlater

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Simple method method for brewing with RO water?
« on: May 19, 2019, 07:36:38 am »
      I'd like to start using RO water for brewing and came across this simple method. I have looked at different spreadsheets and programs ,and read a bunch of different tutorials, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it.
If I follow these directions would it improve my beer?

http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/02/water-chemistry-how-to-build-your-water.html

From the website:

"....So how do I start building my water, I’ve seen brewing water calculators online, they look very complicated?

Assuming your source water isn’t off-the-charts hard, post-RO, it’ll be relatively devoid of minerals (remember 9 to 1 reduction). For the basic style of beer, I simply:

-Add 1tsp of calcium chloride per 5 gallons of water
-Add 2% acidulated malt to my grain bill (typically between 3 and 5 ounces for a 5 gallon batch.

That’s it.

But don’t different beer styles require different water?

Yes, that’s correct.
Roasty beers (stouts, porters), I skip the acidulated malt.
Hoppy syles (APA, IPA, IIPA), I also add 1tsp of gypsum
Soft water beers (Czech Pils), I cut the calcium chloride down to 1/2tsp
British styles, I double the calcum chloride, and add 1tsp of gypsum."
Dan S. from NJ

Offline Bob357

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Re: Simple method method for brewing with RO water?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2019, 08:52:14 am »
As far as reasonable mineral content for different styles, following these recommendations will get you in the ball park. The problem comes when you try to adjust mash pH without knowing what it is before any adjustments.
The grains have a much greater impact on mash pH than the water, especially when using RO. Assuming a mash pH value without knowing the grain bill is a slippery slope at best. Most of the popular water calculators will get you pretty close and are much better than guessing. Ideally, measuring pH with a quality meter is the way to go.
Will following the procedure you posted improve your beer? Without knowing anything about the water you've been using, it's anybody's guess.
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Bob357
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Offline Robert

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Re: Simple method method for brewing with RO water?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2019, 09:43:38 am »
Measuring salts by volume instead of weight is wildly inaccurate also, and will give you varying results.  For example, books generally say a teaspoon of calcium chloride weighs 4 grams.  Well, I did an experiment once and weighed a whole lot of teaspoons, and they weighed anywhere from half a gram to 8 grams.  From the same jar of calcium chloride.   So between not really knowing what's going in the water, and, like Bob357 said not knowing the DI pH of your grain bill, it's a crapshoot.   Try one of the calculators.  The free one at Brewers Friend is good and easy to use.
(And if you don't actually measure the pH you'll never know what's working.  But a calculator will get you in the ballpark probably.)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 09:46:49 am by Robert »
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Simple method method for brewing with RO water?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2019, 03:02:32 pm »
You could definitely do worse than following that advice especially if you tend to brew beers that are typical for their respective styles. For example, following that advice for hoppy beers will not help you brew a hazy IPA well but works well enough for an IPA.

I definitely agree with Robert about measuring by weight instead of volume.

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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Simple method method for brewing with RO water?
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2019, 11:41:59 am »
I also weigh my salts, but have often wondered about the effect of humidity on storage of CACl2 and the difference in weight from absorption of H2O from humid conditions....
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline Robert

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Re: Simple method method for brewing with RO water?
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2019, 11:59:22 am »
I also weigh my salts, but have often wondered about the effect of humidity on storage of CACl2 and the difference in weight from absorption of H2O from humid conditions....
If kept tightly sealed, this should not be a problem.   I've periodically tested this by adding a weighed quantity to DI water and testing the calcium level.  Even after a year or two in a Mason jar, the concentration has remained consistent.  And when calcium chloride does absorb water, it's pretty obvious.  After all, that's what DampRid is!
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Offline HopDen

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Re: Simple method method for brewing with RO water?
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2019, 02:33:23 pm »
Doesn't weighing, by default, negate the effect of humidity? Whereas measuring by volume amplifies the effects of humidity. Help me out here!?! Doesn't the fact that weighing product takes into account the atmospheric influence on said product?
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 02:36:28 pm by HopDen »

Offline Robert

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Re: Simple method method for brewing with RO water?
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2019, 02:53:18 pm »
Doesn't weighing, by default, negate the effect of humidity? Whereas measuring by volume amplifies the effects of humidity. Help me out here!?!
If it absorbs water, that is becomes hydrated, some of the weight would be water, not salt.  Volume might be affected too, but volume is so inaccurate it would be hard to determine that.  The problem with measuring by volume is that granules have highly variable geometry and "packing efficiency," the way items fit together and how much space is left between them.  What you're interested in is mass, not volume or density.  The only way to measure that is by weight.  So I'd recommend, if you're in doubt of whether your salts have become hydrated, do a little test like I mentioned.  If a given weight of salt in a given amount of water gives the expected concentration of calcium,  or whatever, you're good.  If not you can adjust, or get a fresh supply.  Note also that some salts can change to others, e.g. calcium hydroxide, when it absorbs water, reverts to chalk, which is useless in brewing. If a drop of acid placed on a sample of calcium hydroxide gives bubbles, it's gone bad.  Some salts may also be impure when you buy them.  So if you want to be sure of what you're adding to your water,  either test everything to verify it is what you think, or find a supplier who can absolutely be trusted.  That could mean getting expensive, lab grade chemicals, so I'd rather use homebrew retailers and test things.*   Anyway, assuming your salts are what they are supposed to be, weighing is still the only way to know how much you're adding.

*That said, I don't think I've ever bought something that turned out not to be exactly what it was sold as, at least within measurable tolerances.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 03:00:33 pm by Robert »
Rob Stein
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Offline HopDen

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Re: Simple method method for brewing with RO water?
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2019, 03:01:33 pm »
Doesn't weighing, by default, negate the effect of humidity? Whereas measuring by volume amplifies the effects of humidity. Help me out here!?!
If it absorbs water, that is becomes hydrated, some of the weight would be water, not salt.  Volume might be affected too, but volume is so inaccurate it would be hard to determine that.  The problem with measuring by volume is that granules have highly variable geometry and "packing efficiency," the way items fit together and how much space is left between them.  What you're interested in is mass, not volume or density.  The only way to measure that is by weight.  So I'd recommend, if you're in doubt of whether your salts have become hydrated, do a little test like I mentioned.  If a given weight of salt in a given amount of water gives the expected concentration of calcium,  or whatever, you're good.  If not you can adjust, or get a fresh supply.  Note also that some salts can change to others, e.g. calcium hydroxide, when it absorbs water, reverts to chalk, which is useless in brewing. If a drop of acid placed on a sample of calcium hydroxide gives bubbles, it's gone bad.  Some salts may also be impure when you buy them.  So if you want to be sure of what you're adding to your water,  either test everything to verify it is what you think, or find a supplier who can absolutely be trusted.  That could mean getting expensive, lab grade chemicals, so I'd rather use homebrew retailers and test things.   Anyway, assuming your salts are what they are supposed to be, weighing is still the only way to know how much you're adding.


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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Simple method method for brewing with RO water?
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2019, 03:24:19 pm »
Ha Ha - yeah, the DampRid thing is exactly what I was coming from, but on a much smaller scale!  Thanks, Robert, for making my mushy brain hurt less.  And I keep my salts in sealed jars...but there is some headspace...but the jar is not kept open long enough to make a substantive difference in weight, I am sure.
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Offline Robert

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Re: Simple method method for brewing with RO water?
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2019, 03:55:02 pm »
Ha Ha - yeah, the DampRid thing is exactly what I was coming from, but on a much smaller scale!  Thanks, Robert, for making my mushy brain hurt less.  And I keep my salts in sealed jars...but there is some headspace...but the jar is not kept open long enough to make a substantive difference in weight, I am sure.
That's my thinking: open quick, close quick, and all the air the salt is exposed to is what's in the jar, which can't contain a significant amount of water relative to salt even in humid weather.  But if the jar isn't sealed, these hygroscopic salts won't quit sucking it up until your entire state is dehumidified given their druthers.  If you buy salts in a plastic bag or one of those little plastic jars with a fiber liner in the lid, better transfer to something else.   Reminds me, I've got to resupply on DampRid next trip to the hardware store.
Rob Stein
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