[Big Monk]

The things AB/InBev have done to the craft breweries is alarming. Now that they have their foot in the door with homebrewing supplies they obviously have an ulterior motive not necessarily involving the money to be made by such, which is precisely why I won’t buy anything even remotely tainted by them.

And I won’t shop at Walmart either. I’m not against big business. I’ll buy a Blue Moon or Coors when there aren’t better options, and I still like Foster’s ESB (now known as Premium Ale).

While I heartily disagree with the “Snidely Whiplash” interpretation of EVERYTHING AB does, I agree with the sentiment that everyone gets to decide where thier money goes.

[Big Monk]

They don't have to own the above mentioned importers or producers.  Just look at their impact on beverage distribution.  They only need to be, in certain markets, significant distributors.  They can then manipulate pricing and access within the market.  They can also then be in a position to negotiate more favorable distribution arrangements with producers. 

(Eventually there might be some acquisitions? )

What we are trying to say is that Northern Brewer isn’t a major supplier of grain to breweries, at least not to my knowledge. I would imagine that the larger malt supply houses handle that function.

[Robert]

They don't have to own the above mentioned importers or producers.  Just look at their impact on beverage distribution.  They only need to be, in certain markets, significant distributors.  They can then manipulate pricing and access within the market.  They can also then be in a position to negotiate more favorable distribution arrangements with producers. 

(Eventually there might be some acquisitions? )

What we are trying to say is that Northern Brewer isn’t a major supplier of grain to breweries, at least not to my knowledge. I would imagine that the larger malt supply houses handle that function.

Just saying it's a foot in the door. Establishing a relationship.

[case thrower]

AB/InBev, by buying NB, is doing research.  This area of brewing, OUR AREA, is a thorn in their side and what better way to get to know your enemy, which I am sure is how they characterize craft beer AND home brewing, than to buy into it.  The cost of craft breweries is for them small and to buy into the homebrewing market even smaller.  Sometimes we have to look past our own wallets to see the true costs we are facing.

And no, I will NOT shop at wal-mart.  Just because they are now America's largest employer does not mean they are a good employer. 

[rodwha]

The things AB/InBev have done to the craft breweries is alarming. Now that they have their foot in the door with homebrewing supplies they obviously have an ulterior motive not necessarily involving the money to be made by such, which is precisely why I won’t buy anything even remotely tainted by them.

And I won’t shop at Walmart either. I’m not against big business. I’ll buy a Blue Moon or Coors when there aren’t better options, and I still like Foster’s ESB (now known as Premium Ale).

While I heartily disagree with the “Snidely Whiplash” interpretation of EVERYTHING AB does, I agree with the sentiment that everyone gets to decide where thier money goes.

Well I’ve watched the two documentaries which have shown what they’ve done, as well as seeing what they are currently doing. So, much like Wal-Mart, they are bad. They certainly aren’t good for much more than themselves, and at the moment for those who truly love the craft beers they bought out and now sell cheaper.

Quite frankly I wish they weren’t able to buy their way out of their legal issues like they have but suffered the consequences like the small breweries would/have.

[Big Monk]

AB/InBev, by buying NB, is doing research.  This area of brewing, OUR AREA, is a thorn in their side and what better way to get to know your enemy, which I am sure is how they characterize craft beer AND home brewing, than to buy into it.  The cost of craft breweries is for them small and to buy into the homebrewing market even smaller.  Sometimes we have to look past our own wallets to see the true costs we are facing.

And no, I will NOT shop at wal-mart.  Just because they are now America's largest employer does not mean they are a good employer.

Again. Agree to disagree with you guys here. I have trouble believing that a niche market like homebrewers is a thorn in the side of a multinational brewing conglomerate. I’d say we are the 1% of even the craft beer drinking sector, so the fact that AB would by a homebrew supply company, however large, to crush homebrewers, is a bit silly.

I’ll stress this again though: everyone gets to brew how they want and that includes how and where they spend their dollars.

[Frankenbrew]

Apparently, we have more influence than it would seem. It's not just us, it's our friends whom we convert away from BMC beer, our suppliers, including MoreBeer and the rest, the craft breweries that we patronize and the ones that we start. We are a movement to be reckoned with, and as a multinational conglomerate they want to eliminate us. It's not exactly evil, it's what big business does; they try to monopolize the industry. Of course their objective is at odds with ours. We want choice and low prices; they want to be the only choice and charge the prices they want to. It's business, boys.

[Hooper]

AB Knows where the Craft Beer movement started...Home Brewers...Pretty sure these moves are not altruistic.

2 50# bags of Briess 2-row shipped to Denver...2 bags to try to beat the $59 MoreBeer shipping (didn't work)

MoreBeer   $161.08       $1.61 per lb
NB            $129.74       $1.30 per lb
MIdwest    $107.98       $1.08 per lb

If I owned a LHBS, I would try to beat the MW price on bulk...

[ynotbrusum]

I recall this same discussion here when ABInbev bought Northern Brewer and Midwest.  It is not about crushing homebrewers, but it definitely could be about crushing LHBS and online competitors.  Trying not to be paranoid, but I have read a fair amount of beer history and it points to oligopoly as the way beer markets cycle.

[Big Monk]

Apparently, we have more influence than it would seem. It's not just us, it's our friends whom we convert away from BMC beer, our suppliers, including MoreBeer and the rest, the craft breweries that we patronize and the ones that we start. We are a movement to be reckoned with, and as a multinational conglomerate they want to eliminate us. It's not exactly evil, it's what big business does; they try to monopolize the industry. Of course their objective is at odds with ours. We want choice and low prices; they want to be the only choice and charge the prices they want to. It's business, boys.

It's awfully silly and hubristic to think we have that kind of influence, but paranoia and conspiracy are the hallmarks of much of this thread anyway.

In the end, I agree with your statement wholeheartedly about the nature of business. I will point out that not even NB can drop the bottom out on ALL continental grains. Do a side by side on Weyermann at all the online retailers and you'll see they are pretty much equivalent. The prices for things like Rahr and Briess on NB represent the most extreme stuff there, with some continental grains such as Dingemans base malts fairly low too.

Right now this "rock bottom" pricing only affects those who are buying grain by the pound.

[BrewBama]

The reasons businesses do things are normally based on sound decision making processes. They exist by and for profit. The motivation may not be initially evident outside the boardroom. Time will tell.

 “Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”  —John Adams (1770)


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[Frankenbrew]

Apparently, we have more influence than it would seem. It's not just us, it's our friends whom we convert away from BMC beer, our suppliers, including MoreBeer and the rest, the craft breweries that we patronize and the ones that we start. We are a movement to be reckoned with, and as a multinational conglomerate they want to eliminate us. It's not exactly evil, it's what big business does; they try to monopolize the industry. Of course their objective is at odds with ours. We want choice and low prices; they want to be the only choice and charge the prices they want to. It's business, boys.

It's awfully silly and hubristic to think we have that kind of influence, but paranoia and conspiracy are the hallmarks of much of this thread anyway.

In the end, I agree with your statement wholeheartedly about the nature of business. I will point out that not even NB can drop the bottom out on ALL continental grains. Do a side by side on Weyermann at all the online retailers and you'll see they are pretty much equivalent. The prices for things like Rahr and Briess on NB represent the most extreme stuff there, with some continental grains such as Dingemans base malts fairly low too.

Right now this "rock bottom" pricing only affects those who are buying grain by the pound.

It's not a conspiracy. They are monopolizing in plain sight, and I might add, it's not even illegal. Sometimes they make large gains, and sometimes they make incremental gains, but they are always moving in the direction of monopoly.

[Big Monk]

Apparently, we have more influence than it would seem. It's not just us, it's our friends whom we convert away from BMC beer, our suppliers, including MoreBeer and the rest, the craft breweries that we patronize and the ones that we start. We are a movement to be reckoned with, and as a multinational conglomerate they want to eliminate us. It's not exactly evil, it's what big business does; they try to monopolize the industry. Of course their objective is at odds with ours. We want choice and low prices; they want to be the only choice and charge the prices they want to. It's business, boys.

It's awfully silly and hubristic to think we have that kind of influence, but paranoia and conspiracy are the hallmarks of much of this thread anyway.

In the end, I agree with your statement wholeheartedly about the nature of business. I will point out that not even NB can drop the bottom out on ALL continental grains. Do a side by side on Weyermann at all the online retailers and you'll see they are pretty much equivalent. The prices for things like Rahr and Briess on NB represent the most extreme stuff there, with some continental grains such as Dingemans base malts fairly low too.

Right now this "rock bottom" pricing only affects those who are buying grain by the pound.

It's not a conspiracy. They are monopolizing in plain sight, and I might add, it's not even illegal. Sometimes they make large gains, and sometimes they make incremental gains, but they are always moving in the direction of monopoly.

They may or may not be conspiring to monopolize the homebrew market. I’d say that no one here has the depth of experience to say they are or they aren’t.

For the record, I’m playing the Devil’s Advocate here because otherwise these conversations about AB are dreadfully boring and repetitious.

We get it, they’re the bad guy, but to boil down every decision they make to a bunch of cigar chomping fat cats sitting in a board room plotting the demise of craft beer and homebrewing is cartoonish. It’s been said a number of times but bears repeating: Beer is business and BIG business at that. That means that there is going to be a broad spectrum of opinion on what constitutes “good” business practices and what constitutes the predatory form most disagree with.

So we swing back around to the fact that everyone has the opportunity to speak their minds with their wallets.

Also, one further point to clarify: I'm not begrudging or bemoaning anyone about their opinions. I don't want to come off that way. Text has a way of muting nuances of an argument discussion and for me this is really just trying to have a rational dialogue about a topic that definitely has the ability to polarize people.

[denny]

Can anyone explain to me how this is any different from Walmart, Home Depot and big pharma.

This is not ab praying on lowly homebrewers. It’s just big business.  Do you also avoid Walmart, homedepot and name brand drugs?





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Yes, I do.

[Big Monk]

Can anyone explain to me how this is any different from Walmart, Home Depot and big pharma.

This is not ab praying on lowly homebrewers. It’s just big business.  Do you also avoid Walmart, homedepot and name brand drugs?





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Yes, I do.

That doesn't count, you live in the boonies anyway.