Author Topic: Canning  (Read 762 times)

Offline Big Monk

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Re: Canning
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2018, 06:46:18 PM »
Oxidation is the most obvious culprit in this case. Yes, another issue could be the root cause, but I’d remove the most obvious culprit first.

This is the point I think is being missed. Troubleshooting 101 is isolating the most obvious issue. In this case you have a style and packaging susceptible to oxidation.

If the OP is proficient at canning, you can eliminate that. Canning is, however, a new and daunting thing for homebrewers. The assumption is that someone who has invested money in canning is not struggling with cleaning their beergun and sanitizing their cans and lids.

If he hadn't said it happened in an hour, I'd be more inclined to think that oxidation was the obvious cause.  As it is, I consider it a possibility, not a certainty.

This is one of those cases where the inmates (US) are running the asylum while the medical professional (THE OP) is out to lunch.

Maybe we should halt until he chimes back in.
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Canning
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2018, 06:50:02 PM »
TPO the boogey man of canning is going to PEAK around that time( 1hr) before the beers natural antioxidants absorb it. So yes after 1 hour.
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Offline jeffy

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Re: Canning
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2018, 07:51:38 PM »
Interesting experiment: pour one beer off the tap into a glass, pour one beer off the beer gun into a glass, pour one beer off the beer gun into a can.  Taste them all.  Let them all sit for an hour.  Taste them again.  If they are all the same off flavor, then you would think the culprit is oxidation.
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Offline Fzabinski

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Re: Canning
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2018, 08:08:53 PM »
Hey guys sorry was working all day. So to respond to a few things. I wouldn't say I'm an expert canner. I have canned a handful of batches and have had this issue the past 2. I purge for 5 seconds with the beer gun, fill, cap on foam, and seal. One can at a time. I am fairly anal with sanitation. After canning I clean keg with pbw, pressurize and hook up beer gun and squeeze. I then fill empty kegs with star San and run that through beer gun fill jar and let beer gun sit in solution for a while. Then leave kegs filled with starsan until ready to use again.

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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Canning
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2018, 09:33:51 PM »
Pretending the details of this thread didn't exist, if I were taking a test and the question was "Fill in the blank: Assuming no contamination, what would be the most likely cause of a beer becoming darker post-packaging?" I would answer oxidation.

If the question was "less fresh" I'd probably answer age first, then oxidation.

OP, is the beer darker?
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 09:37:07 PM by klickitat jim »

Offline denny

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Re: Canning
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2018, 09:58:56 PM »
Pretending the details of this thread didn't exist, if I were taking a test and the question was "Fill in the blank: Assuming no contamination, what would be the most likely cause of a beer becoming darker post-packaging?" I would answer oxidation.

If the question was "less fresh" I'd probably answer age first, then oxidation.

OP, is the beer darker?

I agree, Jim, but then why have none of us ever noticed it?
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Canning
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2018, 10:18:29 PM »
Pretending the details of this thread didn't exist, if I were taking a test and the question was "Fill in the blank: Assuming no contamination, what would be the most likely cause of a beer becoming darker post-packaging?" I would answer oxidation.

If the question was "less fresh" I'd probably answer age first, then oxidation.

OP, is the beer darker?

I agree, Jim, but then why have none of us ever noticed it?
That's not a "test" question... I don't know the answer. Probably we are doing it wrong
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 10:21:54 PM by klickitat jim »

Offline Stevie

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Re: Canning
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2018, 11:03:26 PM »
IPA growlers taste bad a few hours after filling.

Offline Big Monk

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Re: Canning
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2018, 11:38:42 PM »
Pretending the details of this thread didn't exist, if I were taking a test and the question was "Fill in the blank: Assuming no contamination, what would be the most likely cause of a beer becoming darker post-packaging?" I would answer oxidation.

If the question was "less fresh" I'd probably answer age first, then oxidation.

OP, is the beer darker?

I agree, Jim, but then why have none of us ever noticed it?

I think there is more awareness now then ever before on oxidation, both hot and cold sides. This awareness is making people scrutinize their own process and look for personal weaknesses. There is nothing bad about that and people should feel empowered to question aspects of their own process and try to grow.

Here we are firmly in cold side oxidation territory and it seems that given the style, the packaging type, etc. that this is an ideal candidate for oxidation.

It’s not an on/off switch. Many people who were regulars here sometime ago: brewinhard, stpug, Hoosier, dilluh98 came to us at the LOB forum not because they were necessarily interested hot-side, but more because they were experiencing the very nuanced transitions from brewery fresh to slightly oxidized, most notably with regards to hop flavors and aromas and because of cold-side shortcomings. That was thier tipping point. Not the hot-side, but the cold-side, which is something we are equally passionate about.

So where does that leave us? To the OP, try looking back at the link I posted to our canning post at LOB.com. The Beerery is a certified canning wizard, and his packaging DO numbers best many professional breweries. Some things right off the bat:

1.) Purge for 10 seconds.
2.) Fill slower
3.) Male sure to “cap” on foam
4.) Seam immediately after

Post any shortcomings you think you have and we can help you troubleshoot.
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Offline Fzabinski

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Re: Canning
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2018, 11:52:53 PM »
Hey guys thanks for all the input. The beer doesn't seem much darker or staler really like it was oxidized. Is carbonic acid something that can cause an off flavor and how can that be prevented.

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Offline Big Monk

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Re: Canning
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2018, 12:00:13 AM »
Hey guys thanks for all the input. The beer doesn't seem much darker or staler really like it was oxidized. Is carbonic acid something that can cause an off flavor and how can that be prevented.

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I don’t think there is enough CO2 used to purge to have any ill effects from carbonic acid.
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Online ynotbrusum

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Re: Canning
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2018, 11:21:37 AM »
Are the cans full of beer or is there substantial foam in the can?  They could be just degassing the CO2 to the point that it changes the flavor profile slightly.  I have noticed that when I tap a growler off a keg with a lot of foam, even when consumed within a couple hours.  Like someone said above, try a few different ways side by side to see what you find.  Your NEIPA may not be a good candidate for canning without drastic low oxygen canning processes.  Delicate, short life beers suffer with handling, for sure.
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Offline crossroads.mobil

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Re: Canning
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2018, 02:16:58 PM »
Don’t use any sanitizer in the cans I will cause off flavors and oxidize especially in IPA’s use water the cans are pre cleaned just do a quick rinse.


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Offline majorvices

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Re: Canning
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2018, 02:31:40 PM »
How well did you rinse the can? We had some terrible metallic flavors from our Crowlers. I made the staff hot rinse them every time now. No real need to sanitize but they do anyway.

Offline Hokerer

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Re: Canning
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2018, 04:57:45 PM »
It's the BPA in the can linings




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