[Big Monk]

I'm finding it difficult to get on your page.  Oxidation is a chemical reaction.  The oxidation doesn't know if it was controlled or poorly handled.

But I'll probably just politely duck out of the conversation now.  Maybe.

It's accelerated by it's environment. If I take a beer in a controlled experiment like Kai's where temperature, etc. are held constant, then that is totally different than beer being distributed with variable temperatures in transport, on the shelf, light exposure, etc. You have control over one and not the other.

I'm not sure it matters.  As I basically said previously, if it tastes good, I'll drink it, either way.  And it does, so I do.

Sure. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Everyone has their preferences. Just trying to make the distinction.

[Lazy Ant Brewing]

I have a friend that likes all kinds of beer including very stale, very oxidized brews. 

He'll deliberately leave a few bottles in his fridge for a year, two years or more, and I'm not talking just barley wines either.

He recently served me a 10-year vintage brown wet, stale cardboard, sherry-like liquid.

You know what they say; different strokes for different folks.

[erockrph]

I've had soy sauce Doppelbocks, unfortunately, and they are not good at all. I've had doppelbocks with some sherry notes, and I have generally enjoyed them - as sippers. And I've had fresh doppelbocks that are downright dangerous because they go down so easily.

I enjoy sherry notes in certain styles (barleywines, generally), but even in these styles oxidation can easily be overdone. Take, for example, Sam Adams' ill-fated Triple Bock from back in the day. Even after only a few months of aging it took on an overpowering soy sauce character that cannot be aged out (trust me, I had a bottle that I sat on for a good 15 years or so). I blame their choice of a cork stopper for this.

I guess my point is that while oxidation might not always be the enemy, the places where it may be desired are few and far between. And even then, you still need to have control over the situation. While my precious Thomas Hardy collection is still drinking well at almost 15 years old, I've had 25-year old samples that were undrinkable.

[denny]

I've had soy sauce Doppelbocks, unfortunately, and they are not good at all. I've had doppelbocks with some sherry notes, and I have generally enjoyed them - as sippers. And I've had fresh doppelbocks that are downright dangerous because they go down so easily.

I enjoy sherry notes in certain styles (barleywines, generally), but even in these styles oxidation can easily be overdone. Take, for example, Sam Adams' ill-fated Triple Bock from back in the day. Even after only a few months of aging it took on an overpowering soy sauce character that cannot be aged out (trust me, I had a bottle that I sat on for a good 15 years or so). I blame their choice of a cork stopper for this.

I guess my point is that while oxidation might not always be the enemy, the places where it may be desired are few and far between. And even then, you still need to have control over the situation. While my precious Thomas Hardy collection is still drinking well at almost 15 years old, I've had 25-year old samples that were undrinkable.

Likewise, I had a 74 year old Ballantine Burton ale that was barely recognizable as beer.  OTOH, I took first place at the OR State Fair with a 6 year old barleywine that was definitely showing signs of oxidation...in a good way.  It all depends on the beer and the tastes of the drinker.

[Joe Sr.]

I've had soy sauce Doppelbocks, unfortunately, and they are not good at all. I've had doppelbocks with some sherry notes, and I have generally enjoyed them - as sippers. And I've had fresh doppelbocks that are downright dangerous because they go down so easily.

I enjoy sherry notes in certain styles (barleywines, generally), but even in these styles oxidation can easily be overdone. Take, for example, Sam Adams' ill-fated Triple Bock from back in the day. Even after only a few months of aging it took on an overpowering soy sauce character that cannot be aged out (trust me, I had a bottle that I sat on for a good 15 years or so). I blame their choice of a cork stopper for this.

I guess my point is that while oxidation might not always be the enemy, the places where it may be desired are few and far between. And even then, you still need to have control over the situation. While my precious Thomas Hardy collection is still drinking well at almost 15 years old, I've had 25-year old samples that were undrinkable.

Likewise, I had a 74 year old Ballantine Burton ale that was barely recognizable as beer.  OTOH, I took first place at the OR State Fair with a 6 year old barleywine that was definitely showing signs of oxidation...in a good way.  It all depends on the beer and the tastes of the drinker.

My opinion. Sam Adams triple bock started out tasting like soy sauce. Time could not improve it.

Different beers. Different tastes. Different storage and handling will all impact how it oxidizes.

[homoeccentricus]

Beers in which I have enjoyed a certain amount of oxidation : gueuze, quadruple, Orval, barley wine.

Once brought home a large box of German beers bought in a beer shop in Bonn. Organized a beer tasting two months later. Result: all beers poured down the drain because of oxidation.

There's a difference...

[erockrph]

Beers in which I have enjoyed a certain amount of oxidation : gueuze, quadruple, Orval, barley wine.

Once brought home a large box of German beers bought in a beer shop in Bonn. Organized a beer tasting two months later. Result: all beers poured down the drain because of oxidation.

There's a difference...

Interesting. I appreciate the effects of aging on certain sours and Brett beers, but I chalk up the evolution of flavor over time in these to the ongoing activity of microbes such as Brett, which should be mitigating oxidation. I've had cardboardy gueuze before, and it was not pleasant at all.

[Wilbur]

Likewise, I had a 74 year old Ballantine Burton ale that was barely recognizable as beer.

You're a brave man.

[denny]

Likewise, I had a 74 year old Ballantine Burton ale that was barely recognizable as beer.

You're a brave man.

Nothing harmful in it.  Tasted a bit like weak scotch and water.

[BrewBama]

In the words of Charles Bamforth, “some believe that oxygen ingress throughout brewing is important whereas others have concluded that air uptake upstream of the fermenter is an irrelevance.” De gustibus non est disputandum.