Author Topic: pale malt difference  (Read 2603 times)

Offline BrewBama

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Re: pale malt difference
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2018, 07:43:11 PM »
... Again, Rahr is huge, and owned by BSG,  the US importer of many brands (Weyermann, Castle, Crisp, Simpson's, Patagonia, Gambrinus, Malt Co of Ireland...) your shop probably carries.
...

Actually, I believe Rahr owns BSG.



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Online Robert

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Re: pale malt difference
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2018, 08:16:16 PM »
... Again, Rahr is huge, and owned by BSG,  the US importer of many brands (Weyermann, Castle, Crisp, Simpson's, Patagonia, Gambrinus, Malt Co of Ireland...) your shop probably carries.
...

Actually, I believe Rahr owns BSG.



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Oops!  Of course you're right. Point is, I don't see why their availability would be declining.  And sorry if I'm drawing us off topic...
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Offline tommymorris

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Re: pale malt difference
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2018, 08:21:55 PM »
... Again, Rahr is huge, and owned by BSG,  the US importer of many brands (Weyermann, Castle, Crisp, Simpson's, Patagonia, Gambrinus, Malt Co of Ireland...) your shop probably carries.
...

Actually, I believe Rahr owns BSG.



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Oops!  Of course you're right. Point is, I don't see why their availability would be declining.  And sorry if I'm drawing us off topic...
I guess they just don’t sell it at Adventures in Homebrewing. I am in my own little world here.


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Offline majorvices

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Re: pale malt difference
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2018, 08:42:18 PM »
I think I'm kind of an oddball here.  MO is a great malt, but I don't care for it for American styles in general.

+1

Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: pale malt difference
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2018, 03:11:03 AM »
I think I'm kind of an oddball here.  MO is a great malt, but I don't care for it for American styles in general.

+1

I use MO for English styles.  And sometimes in stout. But not for American styles.

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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: pale malt difference
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2018, 03:29:40 PM »
Tommy,  interesting observation on Briess.  When I said "poor" performance I really meant "inconsistent," you seem to have observed that.  Briess operates on a small-batch scale compared to Rahr, which is one of the world's largest maltsters; that may be a factor in variability.  As for availability,  I suspect that's something to do with your retailers.  Again, Rahr is huge, and owned by BSG,  the US importer of many brands (Weyermann, Castle, Crisp, Simpson's, Patagonia, Gambrinus, Malt Co of Ireland...) your shop probably carries.

And yeah, Briess gets out of the way, I think Rahr has more presence, which I guess I like.  I've not had the opportunity to try GW.

One point, Rahr owns BSG. https://www.rahr.com The other distributor/importer is The Country Malt Group, which is owned by Great Western/Canada Malting which are owned by GrainCorp from AU http://www.greatwesternmalting.com/gwm/malting-company/

Briess has done a few things differently in the last few years. First they stopped malting 6-row. Then they sourced malt from the Bighorn Basin. I was surprised to see malt in poly bags, not paper, which I think is better for storage. At NHC they had a new product that you coul get a pound of, 30L Munich. I might have to try some of their base malt again if I can find it at the right price.
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Offline tommymorris

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Re: pale malt difference
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2018, 03:54:20 PM »
Tommy,  interesting observation on Briess.  When I said "poor" performance I really meant "inconsistent," you seem to have observed that.  Briess operates on a small-batch scale compared to Rahr, which is one of the world's largest maltsters; that may be a factor in variability.  As for availability,  I suspect that's something to do with your retailers.  Again, Rahr is huge, and owned by BSG,  the US importer of many brands (Weyermann, Castle, Crisp, Simpson's, Patagonia, Gambrinus, Malt Co of Ireland...) your shop probably carries.

And yeah, Briess gets out of the way, I think Rahr has more presence, which I guess I like.  I've not had the opportunity to try GW.

One point, Rahr owns BSG. https://www.rahr.com The other distributor/importer is The Country Malt Group, which is owned by Great Western/Canada Malting which are owned by GrainCorp from AU http://www.greatwesternmalting.com/gwm/malting-company/

Briess has done a few things differently in the last few years. First they stopped malting 6-row. Then they sourced malt from the Bighorn Basin. I was surprised to see malt in poly bags, not paper, which I think is better for storage. At NHC they had a new product that you coul get a pound of, 30L Munich. I might have to try some of their base malt again if I can find it at the right price.
GrainCorp Malt Group is a big part of our lives: Country Malting Group, BrewcraftUSA, Great Western, Bairds, Schill, Canada Malting Co.

and people worry about AB InBev owning 2 homebrew supply shops.


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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: pale malt difference
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2018, 06:38:38 PM »
Tommy,  interesting observation on Briess.  When I said "poor" performance I really meant "inconsistent," you seem to have observed that.  Briess operates on a small-batch scale compared to Rahr, which is one of the world's largest maltsters; that may be a factor in variability.  As for availability,  I suspect that's something to do with your retailers.  Again, Rahr is huge, and owned by BSG,  the US importer of many brands (Weyermann, Castle, Crisp, Simpson's, Patagonia, Gambrinus, Malt Co of Ireland...) your shop probably carries.

And yeah, Briess gets out of the way, I think Rahr has more presence, which I guess I like.  I've not had the opportunity to try GW.

One point, Rahr owns BSG. https://www.rahr.com The other distributor/importer is The Country Malt Group, which is owned by Great Western/Canada Malting which are owned by GrainCorp from AU http://www.greatwesternmalting.com/gwm/malting-company/

Briess has done a few things differently in the last few years. First they stopped malting 6-row. Then they sourced malt from the Bighorn Basin. I was surprised to see malt in poly bags, not paper, which I think is better for storage. At NHC they had a new product that you coul get a pound of, 30L Munich. I might have to try some of their base malt again if I can find it at the right price.
GrainCorp Malt Group is a big part of our lives: Country Malting Group, BrewcraftUSA, Great Western, Bairds, Schill, Canada Malting Co.

and people worry about AB InBev owning 2 homebrew supply shops.


- formerly alestateyall.
BSG has a large portfolio too.
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Offline Hooper

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Re: pale malt difference
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2018, 10:02:30 PM »
I'm brewing tomorrow...thought I had 10# Pilsner...to go in my 40/60 Halcyon/Pilsner Pale Ale...Well I'm doing 40/60 Halcyon/Briess 2-row. It won't be the same but it will be fine...

I really like Thomas Fawcett Pearl and Halcyon...Any comments on these two?
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: pale malt difference
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2018, 10:59:19 PM »
I can’t remember who did it, but I read an experiment where they taste tested a beer brewed with 2 row vs one brewed with Pilsner. With all else the same, very few folks could tell the difference.
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Offline charlie

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Re: pale malt difference
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2018, 01:41:41 AM »
I'm brewing a recipe that calls for two different brands of pale malt (9 lbs. of Maris Otter and 4 lbs. of Briess). Will I really notice the difference if I just use 11 lbs of the same kind? Not sure if my supply store carries Maris Otter.

You will definitely notice. As others have mentioned Marris Otter (MO) lends a more english'y flavor. Early in my all-grain adventure the LBHS gave me a recipe using 1/2 Marris Otter and 1/2 two row. I wondered about it, so I made the same recipe using all two row and all MO. The all MO brew was a bit much flavor wise, and the all two row was plain vanilla, but the 50:50 mix popped!

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Offline BrewnWKopperKat

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Re: pale malt difference
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2018, 10:08:10 AM »
I can’t remember who did it, but I read an experiment where they taste tested a beer brewed with 2 row vs one brewed with Pilsner. With all else the same, very few folks could tell the difference.

Brulosophy has done a couple of grain comparison experiments (and some of the articles are reposted at the AHA site).  Here's the link to the pale malt two row vs pilsner:

http://brulosophy.com/2017/08/28/grain-comparison-pale-malt-2-row-vs-pilsner-malt-exbeeriment-results/
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 10:09:55 AM by BrewnWKopperKat »

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: pale malt difference
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2018, 10:46:04 AM »
"2 row" is a poor descriptor for precisely which malt to use. Maris Otter is a variety of 2 row. We all misuse these terms. I tell people I use Golden Promise... but more specifically its Simpsons Golden Promise Finest Pale Ale. Even though you could certainly use a larger yeast with it, even a larger yeast that is actually an ale yeast.

It's just one of those things. In fishing they refer to monofilament vs florocarbon. Um, both are actually monofilament, unless they are braided... but I guess monofilament sounds better than nylon.

I suspect one of the key aspects that effects final beer flavor is diastatic power. Generally American paler kilned malts, about 80% of which are 2 row, are far higher DP than their European counterparts. Yes, different varieties. Yes, kilned differently. But treat an American variety they way the European maltsters do and I bet my suspicion is accurate ish.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 11:15:41 AM by klickitat jim »

Online Robert

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Re: pale malt difference
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2018, 11:29:47 AM »
Jim, nice to see you got a break from fishing to join us again!  ;)  If you (and anybody else) get a chance, listen to the recent MBAA podcasts on "6-rowification" of American 2-row.  Actually it seems 90% of US malt is now 2-row,  but it has properties so close to 6-row, you really can't treat these varieties like European barley.  But it may not matter.  You can still make very tasty malt and beer with them (Americans have been making all malt beer with 6-row for centuries.)  In fact, anybody who has a day too rainy for fishing, riding or whatever keeps you busy in the summer, and wants to really learn about barley and malt differences, listen to any and all of the MBAA podcasts featuring Joe Hertrich.  Malt and flavor (ep. 24-26) and 6-rowification (ep. 88-89.)  Great stuff.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 11:33:34 AM by Robert »
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: pale malt difference
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2018, 12:08:53 PM »
Indeed! The '2-Row' descriptor is almost worthless. The more important descriptor is the malt's color rating since that directly relates to the malt's SMM content and potential DMS difficulties. To add to the confusion, maltsters apply confusing and deceptive names to their malts and that introduces more problems. One maltster's Pils malt could be another's Extra Pale malt.

While I said '2-Row' is almost worthless above, it still indicates the broad barley variety. This is important since malts that don't state that they are '2-Row', could very well be made with '6-Row' barley. In reading a number of books on malt, I noted that there are malts that are actually made with 6-Row barley and the maltsters provide no indication of the variety in their naming. You might say that's OK with you, but an important fact is that 6-Row barley contains about 50 to 100 percent more SMM potential than 2-Row. Fortunately, the darker a malt is kilned, the lower the SMM content.   

This all still points to the fact that brewers need to pay more attention to the color rating of their base malts than they have before. Names are just names. Color rating is factual and it provides more indication of wort flavor and DMS potential.
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