Author Topic: Null-lox Malts from Morebeer  (Read 515 times)

Offline narcout

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Null-lox Malts from Morebeer
« on: July 12, 2018, 07:01:20 PM »
I notice that Morebeer has recently started carrying Viking Malts (38 varieties), including no-lox versions of pilsner and pale malt. I've never heard of Viking before, but apparently they are a pretty large maltster in Europe.

Here's a blurb from the website:

Viking Malt is also known for growing the malt varietal Charles, a null-lox malt. Null-lox malts do not contain the enzyme lipoxygenase (lox) which leads to trans-2-nonenal in aged beer. Trans-2-nonenal is responsible for beer staling and the associated flavors of cardboard and paper. Normally the null-lox varietals are sold at a premium in Europe, but our initial shipments of base malts will all be crafted from the Charles null-lox varietal at no extra cost.

https://www.morebeer.com/category/grains-malt-barley.html?fc_1104=Viking+Malt

https://www.morebeer.com/products/viking-pilsner-malt-1.html

https://www.morebeer.com/products/viking-pale-malt.html
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: Null-lox Malts from Morebeer
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2018, 08:51:10 PM »
Cool. This maybe a more elegant way than adding sulfates and ascorbic acid. Kinda like using acid malt vs liquid lactic acid. It’ll be interesting to see results from experiments.


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Offline denny

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Re: Null-lox Malts from Morebeer
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2018, 09:46:51 PM »
Cool. This maybe a more elegant way than adding sulfates and ascorbic acid. Kinda like using acid malt vs liquid lactic acid. It’ll be interesting to see results from experiments.


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Except in your example, I'd go for lactic acid every time.  Is that what you were saying?
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Offline Big Monk

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Re: Null-lox Malts from Morebeer
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2018, 10:02:32 PM »
Cool. This maybe a more elegant way than adding sulfates and ascorbic acid. Kinda like using acid malt vs liquid lactic acid. It’ll be interesting to see results from experiments.


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How so? LOX is not something you would be using AA or sulfites to mitigate.
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Offline samuel.workman

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Re: Null-lox Malts from Morebeer
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2018, 10:26:44 PM »
The inclination if I'm reading the op's intent, is that, if this enzyme is indeed an accelerator or agent of staling, that it's absence may slow the rate of damage by the O2 in the tun, kettle, or bottle (not prevent it).

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Offline Big Monk

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Re: Null-lox Malts from Morebeer
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2018, 10:50:13 PM »
The inclination if I'm reading the op's intent, is that, if this enzyme is indeed an accelerator or agent of staling, that it's absence may slow the rate of damage by the O2 in the tun, kettle, or bottle (not prevent it).

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If the flavor of the malt is any good this would be good for anyone not brewing Low Oxygen.
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Offline samuel.workman

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Re: Null-lox Malts from Morebeer
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2018, 10:53:52 PM »
Right, I agree. Was just trying to give a bit of clarity to the op, and especially the intent of the second post.

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Offline BrewBama

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Re: Null-lox Malts from Morebeer
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2018, 11:17:22 PM »
Hmmm. I thought the point of adding anti oxidants in low oxygen brewing is to reduce/ eliminate dissolved oxygen to limit/prevent staling. I thought this lox malt does that for you so you don’t have to add the anti oxidants.

The correlation of lactic acid to acidulated malt was based on that understanding.


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Offline samuel.workman

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Re: Null-lox Malts from Morebeer
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2018, 11:19:37 PM »
Before the discussion unfolded, I was thinking it might benefit folks who are also working on their Low Oxygen techniques, but face particular obstacles. For instance, folks with Braumeisters might have a little extra time after dough-in (the bug-a-boo for these systems) to help the yeast catch up in scavenging or something for those using that method.

IF the malt has good flavor, that is. Nothing matters if not.

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Offline samuel.workman

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Re: Null-lox Malts from Morebeer
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2018, 11:21:23 PM »
All things stale, not just malt. It's just a matter of how long it takes.

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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Null-lox Malts from Morebeer
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2018, 11:28:07 PM »
Hmmm. I thought the point of adding anti oxidants in low oxygen brewing is to reduce/ eliminate dissolved oxygen to limit/prevent staling. I thought this lox malt does that for you so you don’t have to add the anti oxidants.

The correlation of lactic acid to acidulated malt was based on that understanding.


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Staling doesn't need oxygen to start.
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: Null-lox Malts from Morebeer
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2018, 11:31:27 PM »
All things stale, not just malt. It's just a matter of how long it takes.

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+1. I think I must be oxidized. LOL


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Offline samuel.workman

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Re: Null-lox Malts from Morebeer
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2018, 11:34:18 PM »
All things stale, not just malt. It's just a matter of how long it takes.

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+1. I think I must be oxidized. LOL


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Offline Robert

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Re: Null-lox Malts from Morebeer
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2018, 11:57:20 PM »
The inclination if I'm reading the op's intent, is that, if this enzyme is indeed an accelerator or agent of staling, that it's absence may slow the rate of damage by the O2 in the tun, kettle, or bottle (not prevent it).

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Kunze 3.2.1.6 explains that even if all O2 were excluded, degradation by LOX of fatty acids would still occur.  (But LOX is temperature sensitive, so using higher kilned malts and mashing in in above 140°F already reduce it considerably.)
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Offline samuel.workman

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Re: Null-lox Malts from Morebeer
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2018, 12:00:09 AM »
Right, this is a question of speed not 'if' or 'whether'.

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