Author Topic: Biere de Garde recipe critique  (Read 922 times)

Offline Annabellesdad14

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Biere de Garde recipe critique
« on: July 13, 2018, 02:38:04 AM »
Hey all,

Looking for any feedback for a traditional amber Biere de Garde.

Here's what I have so far:

1.073 SG
22 IBU

12lb Vienna Malt
8 oz caramunich
8 oz aromatic
4 oz biscuit

1 oz Brewers gold @60
.25 oz Hallertau @20

WLP072 French Ale

Package and lager 4 weeks

Planning 60min single infusion mash @152F and one hour boil unless otherwise recommended.

Any feedback is much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Offline mabrungard

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Re: Biere de Garde recipe critique
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2018, 12:06:56 PM »
Looks reasonable. An hour boil should be sufficient since Vienna has reasonably low SMM content. A half hour covered simmer and half hour open boil will do.
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Re: Biere de Garde recipe critique
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2018, 05:49:19 PM »
An hour boil should be sufficient since Vienna has reasonably low SMM content. A half hour covered simmer and half hour open boil will do.

I heard a great presentation in Portland about this. That guy really knew what he was talking about and convinced me.  ;)
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Offline denny

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Re: Biere de Garde recipe critique
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2018, 06:06:37 PM »
OTOH, I've one BdG with an 8 hour boil.  Not that I'd do that regularly, but it certainly did add something to the beer.  And since AFAIK BdG is a marketing construct, it can be whatever you say it is!
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Offline Brewtopalonian

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Re: Biere de Garde recipe critique
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2018, 04:42:21 PM »
I just brewed a BdG myself last week!  Looks similar.  I used an already yeast and a lager yeast and incorperated some brown sugar to boost gravity and add a je ne sais quoi to it lol.  I'm fermenting at the low end of the ale yeast and the upper end of the lager yeast, right on that sweet spot of 60 degrees for 3 weeks, then packaging and aging/lagering at 38* for another 3 weeks.

I boiled for 90 mins because I didn't read this post first.  My line of thinking was to make those malliard reactions happen to give it that beautiful copper color, which it did nicely!  Didn't know the trick about a covered simmer as per Martin, will have to try that sometime too.

Good luck, yours looks good! Can't wait to see the finished product!

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Offline Annabellesdad14

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Re: Biere de Garde recipe critique
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2018, 06:51:18 AM »
I just brewed a BdG myself last week!  Looks similar.  I used an already yeast and a lager yeast and incorperated some brown sugar to boost gravity and add a je ne sais quoi to it lol.  I'm fermenting at the low end of the ale yeast and the upper end of the lager yeast, right on that sweet spot of 60 degrees for 3 weeks, then packaging and aging/lagering at 38* for another 3 weeks.

I boiled for 90 mins because I didn't read this post first.  My line of thinking was to make those malliard reactions happen to give it that beautiful copper color, which it did nicely!  Didn't know the trick about a covered simmer as per Martin, will have to try that sometime too.

Good luck, yours looks good! Can't wait to see the finished product!

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

I'm happy with the way mine is drinking. If I were to brew this again, and I plan to get around to it eventually, I think I may add some carapils, sugar, and mash a bit lower. I wound up using WLP029 since my lhbs didnt have 072. The flavor is great but the attenuation was low. I was looking for a bit more ABV and a slightly drier beer, which I think could be acheived with the sugar and lower mash temp. Also the head retention is poor, which is why I'd include the carapils.

Good luck with your BdG!

Offline denny

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Re: Biere de Garde recipe critique
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2018, 03:33:20 PM »
I just brewed a BdG myself last week!  Looks similar.  I used an already yeast and a lager yeast and incorperated some brown sugar to boost gravity and add a je ne sais quoi to it lol.  I'm fermenting at the low end of the ale yeast and the upper end of the lager yeast, right on that sweet spot of 60 degrees for 3 weeks, then packaging and aging/lagering at 38* for another 3 weeks.

I boiled for 90 mins because I didn't read this post first.  My line of thinking was to make those malliard reactions happen to give it that beautiful copper color, which it did nicely!  Didn't know the trick about a covered simmer as per Martin, will have to try that sometime too.

Good luck, yours looks good! Can't wait to see the finished product!

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

I'm happy with the way mine is drinking. If I were to brew this again, and I plan to get around to it eventually, I think I may add some carapils, sugar, and mash a bit lower. I wound up using WLP029 since my lhbs didnt have 072. The flavor is great but the attenuation was low. I was looking for a bit more ABV and a slightly drier beer, which I think could be acheived with the sugar and lower mash temp. Also the head retention is poor, which is why I'd include the carapils.

Good luck with your BdG!

Isn't adding both carapils and sugar at cross puposes?  Carapils won't necessarily increase foam.  Look f or instance at Duvel....nothing but pils malt and sugar and its got foam that homebrewers would kill for.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 03:35:15 PM by denny »
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Biere de Garde recipe critique
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2018, 04:36:52 PM »
Carapils doesn't improve foam.  But flaked wheat or rye certainly do.
Dave

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Offline denny

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Re: Biere de Garde recipe critique
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2018, 04:48:32 PM »
Carapils doesn't improve foam.  But flaked wheat or rye certainly do.

Not necessarily
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Offline Big Monk

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Re: Biere de Garde recipe critique
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2018, 04:58:37 PM »
I just brewed a BdG myself last week!  Looks similar.  I used an already yeast and a lager yeast and incorperated some brown sugar to boost gravity and add a je ne sais quoi to it lol.  I'm fermenting at the low end of the ale yeast and the upper end of the lager yeast, right on that sweet spot of 60 degrees for 3 weeks, then packaging and aging/lagering at 38* for another 3 weeks.

I boiled for 90 mins because I didn't read this post first.  My line of thinking was to make those malliard reactions happen to give it that beautiful copper color, which it did nicely!  Didn't know the trick about a covered simmer as per Martin, will have to try that sometime too.

Good luck, yours looks good! Can't wait to see the finished product!

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

I'm happy with the way mine is drinking. If I were to brew this again, and I plan to get around to it eventually, I think I may add some carapils, sugar, and mash a bit lower. I wound up using WLP029 since my lhbs didnt have 072. The flavor is great but the attenuation was low. I was looking for a bit more ABV and a slightly drier beer, which I think could be acheived with the sugar and lower mash temp. Also the head retention is poor, which is why I'd include the carapils.

Good luck with your BdG!

Isn't adding both carapils and sugar at cross puposes?  Carapils won't necessarily increase foam.  Look f or instance at Duvel....nothing but pils malt and sugar and its got foam that homebrewers would kill for.

That has quite a bit to do with mashing and pre bottle filtering as well but you are dead on. Great foam is process based.
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Offline denny

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Re: Biere de Garde recipe critique
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2018, 06:35:54 PM »
[q K97uote author=Annabellesdad14 link=topic=32063.msg416947#msg416947 date=1537685478]
I just brewed a BdG myself last week!  Looks similar.  I used an already yeast and a lager yeast and incorperated some brown sugar to boost gravity and add a je ne sais quoi to it lol.  I'm fermenting at the low end of the ale yeast and the upper end of the lager yeast, right on that sweet spot of 60 degrees for 3 weeks, then packaging and aging/lagering at 38* for another 3 weeks.

I boiled for 90 mins because I didn't read this post first.  My line of thinking was to make those malliard reactions happen to give it that beautiful copper color, which it did nicely!  Didn't know the trick about a covered simmer as per Martin, will have to try that sometime too.

Good luck, yours looks good! Can't wait to see the finished product!

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

I'm happy with the way mine is drinking. If I were to brew this again, and I plan to get around to it eventually, I think I may add some carapils, sugar, and mash a bit lower. I wound up using WLP029 since my lhbs didnt have 072. The flavor is great but the attenuation was low. I was looking for a bit more ABV and a slightly drier beer, which I think could be acheived with the sugar and lower mash temp. Also the head retention is poor, which is why I'd include the carapils.

Good luck with your BdG!

Isn't adding both carapils and sugar at cross puposes?  Carapils won't necessarily increase foam.  Look f or instance at Duvel....nothing but pils malt and sugar and its got foam that homebrewers would kill for.

That has quite a bit to do with mashing and pre bottle filtering as well but you are dead on. Great foam is process based.
[/quote]

And fermentation temp and yeast health.   
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline Annabellesdad14

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Re: Biere de Garde recipe critique
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2018, 07:48:08 PM »
I just brewed a BdG myself last week!  Looks similar.  I used an already yeast and a lager yeast and incorperated some brown sugar to boost gravity and add a je ne sais quoi to it lol.  I'm fermenting at the low end of the ale yeast and the upper end of the lager yeast, right on that sweet spot of 60 degrees for 3 weeks, then packaging and aging/lagering at 38* for another 3 weeks.

I boiled for 90 mins because I didn't read this post first.  My line of thinking was to make those malliard reactions happen to give it that beautiful copper color, which it did nicely!  Didn't know the trick about a covered simmer as per Martin, will have to try that sometime too.

Good luck, yours looks good! Can't wait to see the finished product!

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

I'm happy with the way mine is drinking. If I were to brew this again, and I plan to get around to it eventually, I think I may add some carapils, sugar, and mash a bit lower. I wound up using WLP029 since my lhbs didnt have 072. The flavor is great but the attenuation was low. I was looking for a bit more ABV and a slightly drier beer, which I think could be acheived with the sugar and lower mash temp. Also the head retention is poor, which is why I'd include the carapils.

Good luck with your BdG!

Isn't adding both carapils and sugar at cross puposes?  Carapils won't necessarily increase foam.  Look f or instance at Duvel....nothing but pils malt and sugar and its got foam that homebrewers would kill for.

I must be confused then. This is from Briess:

The original Carapils® Malt is a unique, dextrine-style malt that consistently increases foam, improves head retention and enhances mouthfeel without adding flavor or color to your beer.


How would you troubleshoot foam issues with a beer like this? Nothing different about my usual processes and I normally dont have this issue.

Offline Brewtopalonian

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Re: Biere de Garde recipe critique
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2018, 07:51:14 PM »
You could always try a protien. Rest at 122*F to try to improve head. 

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Re: Biere de Garde recipe critique
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2018, 08:01:06 PM »
You could always try a protien. Rest at 122*F to try to improve head. 

No no non on onononononononononononono no.  I totally totally disagree.  This is the 21st century.  Protein rest ruins good beer in the 21st century.  Maybe 200 years ago with terribly undermodified malt, it might have been a good idea.  Not today.

Sorry, I've been drinking again.

EDIT: Okay, okay, here's more info regarding Carapils from a sober guy:

http://scottjanish.com/dextrins-and-mouthfeel/
Dave

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Offline Robert

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Re: Biere de Garde recipe critique
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2018, 08:25:55 PM »
I'm with Dave.  Nothing will wreck your foam like a protein rest.  It will also dull your malt flavors and thin out the mouthfeel.  It is only useful for breaking down all those nice body-  and foam-positive and melanoidin-forming peptides and such into extra yeast nutrients if you're making 60% adjunct industrial fizzy water. (And probably not even then with modern, high nitrogen barleys.) All malts available today have had the protein regime brought to perfection and only need to have the carbohydrates broken down.

  And my experience is that Carapils/Carafoam not only doesn't do what it says, it does the opposite.   It does, however, add a subtle but detectable nutty flavor note in very delicate beers.

And don't apologize for drinking beer.  Or being passionate about it.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 08:33:47 PM by Robert »
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