Author Topic: Low attenuation/missing FG on all batches  (Read 1466 times)

Offline lasersnake

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Re: Low attenuation/missing FG on all batches
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2018, 11:04:39 PM »
Are you measuring the temperature of the wort immediately after it exits the HERMS coil?

I measure my mash temp (for control) off the outlet of the mash tun as per the electric brewery design, easy to change to the inlet of the mash tun for a test though!

How long are you mashing?

mashing for 60-90mins depending on recipe.

How are you deciding what your FG "should" be?

Beersmith 3 estimations

Yeah but if it is recipes he has regularly brewed then he can come to expect similar results. I do recommend a force fermentation test to make sure it is your mash as opposed to your fermentation.

I plan on doing a forced fermentation test next brew.

Does anyone know if it is viable to do a forced fermentation test once the fermentation seems to have stopped in the fermenter... ie pull 1-2l out in to a flask, pitch some more yeast and put it on the stir plate? or would this not yield the necessary results? My theory is that would determine whether theres a fermentation issue!

Offline jordynferg6

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Re: Low attenuation/missing FG on all batches
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2018, 12:20:14 AM »
I had the same problem until I started doing the iodine test with my mash. I was simply following recipes but I ended up having to mash 25 to 35% longer now my final gravity consistently comes out at or lower than expected

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« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 12:22:27 AM by jordynferg6 »

Offline rburrelli

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Re: Low attenuation/missing FG on all batches
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2018, 04:25:42 PM »

Quote

I plan on doing a forced fermentation test next brew.

Does anyone know if it is viable to do a forced fermentation test once the fermentation seems to have stopped in the fermenter... ie pull 1-2l out in to a flask, pitch some more yeast and put it on the stir plate? or would this not yield the necessary results? My theory is that would determine whether theres a fermentation issue!

I recently did a forced ferment test on a porter I thought might be stuck. Rousing the yeast was just not working. I just pulled a sample, put it on a stir plate at about 80 degrees for 24 hours. No added yeast.  It indicated that I could still extract a few points.  So I roused the yeast and raised the temp slightly on the batch and it chewed out the final couple of points.
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Offline charlie

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Re: Low attenuation/missing FG on all batches
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2018, 05:37:03 PM »
I favor the high mash temp theory. The one time I missed my FG by 5 points or more that was quite definitely the problem.

I monitor temp in the mash keggle using an analog Blichmann Brewmometer and a digital probe connected to a BCS-460. My mash profile is 150-152 F. The HERMS is under BCS-460 control, and is set to 153 F in summer, and slightly higher in winter. The returning wort temperature is monitored at the outlet of the HERMS coil. In my lightly insulated mash keggle I can maintain 151 F by running the recirculating pump 10 min on, and 10 min off.

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Offline denny

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Re: Low attenuation/missing FG on all batches
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2018, 05:58:01 PM »
I've ound that mash temp only matters for a handful of malts.  For most domestic malts, it makes little difference.
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Low attenuation/missing FG on all batches
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2018, 09:47:02 PM »
I've ound that mash temp only matters for a handful of malts.  For most domestic malts, it makes little difference.

I noticed that an heirloom malt I bought takes a longer mash time and is temperature sensitive, as well.  It is intentionally under-modified as a replica of an 1800's Maris Otter by Crisp called "Chevalier".  It has incredible character worthy of its finickyness (if that is a word).
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Online Robert

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Re: Low attenuation/missing FG on all batches
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2018, 10:15:30 PM »
I've ound that mash temp only matters for a handful of malts.  For most domestic malts, it makes little difference.

I noticed that an heirloom malt I bought takes a longer mash time and is temperature sensitive, as well.  It is intentionally under-modified as a replica of an 1800's Maris Otter by Crisp called "Chevalier".  It has incredible character worthy of its finickyness (if that is a word).
Not to be pedantic but... "Chevalier" referred to a wide class ("variety" wasn't a thing at that point in history) of barleys, widely grown between 1820-1880, with certain common characteristics.  They were finally abandoned around WWI.  They are possibly in the family trees of modern barleys, though Maris Otter, which was first bred in 1966, is more directly descended from Archer, a class  contemporary with Chevalier.  Crisp has apparently sourced something of the old seed stock.  You think Chevaliers are finicky in the brewhouse, apparently they were absolute nightmares in the field, but prized by brewers in their day.  Where did you get this unicorn?
« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 11:12:33 PM by Robert »
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Offline BrewBama

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Low attenuation/missing FG on all batches
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2018, 10:23:16 PM »
Software is a starting place, actual results you experience in your brewery are your ultimate guide.

I couldn’t agree more.  I’ve found myself saying this a lot lately.

I like to go to the yeast mfr site and replace BeerSmith attenuation expectation with the yeast spec. It’s usually closer.


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« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 10:29:02 AM by BrewBama »
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Low attenuation/missing FG on all batches
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2018, 01:50:06 AM »
I've ound that mash temp only matters for a handful of malts.  For most domestic malts, it makes little difference.

I noticed that an heirloom malt I bought takes a longer mash time and is temperature sensitive, as well.  It is intentionally under-modified as a replica of an 1800's Maris Otter by Crisp called "Chevalier".  It has incredible character worthy of its finickyness (if that is a word).


Not to be pedantic but... "Chevalier" referred to a wide class ("variety" wasn't a thing at that point in history) of barleys, widely grown between 1820-1880, with certain common characteristics.  They were finally abandoned around WWI.  They are possibly in the family trees of modern barleys, though Maris Otter, which was first bred in 1966, is more directly descended from Archer, a class  contemporary with Chevalier.  Crisp has apparently sourced something of the old seed stock.  You think Chevaliers are finicky in the brewhouse, apparently they were absolute nightmares in the field, but prized by brewers in their day.  Where did you get this unicorn?

Very interesting.  I got a sack from my LHBS.  They got it through their distributor and knew I would appreciate it.  Probably something like a few hundred tons were made according to the Crisp site.

http://bsgcraftbrewing.com/Resources/CraftBrewing/PDFs/Product_Sheets/Crisp/6.1.17_CB-Crisp%20Chevallier%20Sell%20Sheet.pdf

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Online Robert

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Re: Low attenuation/missing FG on all batches
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2018, 02:13:18 AM »
Thanks, ynotbrusum, I'll have to do some research and see if it's available through "normal channels." (Heck, I can't generally even get most modern "varietals" like the Weyermann Barke line or Briess Synergy and Full Pint.)  It's just weird enough to really pique my curiosity.  I now return you to your regularly scheduled topic...
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Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: Low attenuation/missing FG on all batches
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2018, 10:45:54 AM »
I do not believe that it is a fermentation issue. What are the OP's mash temperatures. One is not going to obtain those attentuation levels without a highly fermentable wort.   The OP should try a single temp mash at 65C/149F for an hour to ninety minutes and report his results.

1 - (11 / 62) = 82% AA
1 - (13 / 66) = 80% AA


1 - (16 / 61 ) * 100 = 74%
1 - (19 / 65) * 100  = 71%


Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Low attenuation/missing FG on all batches
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2018, 03:41:22 PM »
Thanks, ynotbrusum, I'll have to do some research and see if it's available through "normal channels." (Heck, I can't generally even get most modern "varietals" like the Weyermann Barke line or Briess Synergy and Full Pint.)  It's just weird enough to really pique my curiosity.  I now return you to your regularly scheduled topic...

I have had two commercial beers made with Chevallier from Crisp. The first was at Bell’s a little after Mallet’s malt book was published, Crisp contacted him to see if he was interested, and he was. The other was at Arbor Brewing in Ann Arbor. Both were Best Bitters around 4% ABV. The malt flavor was fantastic, something like a baguette with a smear of walnut paste (nutty). Some LHBSs have been able to order it, but I have not asked mine to do it, yet.
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Low attenuation/missing FG on all batches
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2018, 07:57:06 PM »
Thanks, ynotbrusum, I'll have to do some research and see if it's available through "normal channels." (Heck, I can't generally even get most modern "varietals" like the Weyermann Barke line or Briess Synergy and Full Pint.)  It's just weird enough to really pique my curiosity.  I now return you to your regularly scheduled topic...

I have had two commercial beers made with Chevallier from Crisp. The first was at Bell’s a little after Mallet’s malt book was published, Crisp contacted him to see if he was interested, and he was. The other was at Arbor Brewing in Ann Arbor. Both were Best Bitters around 4% ABV. The malt flavor was fantastic, something like a baguette with a smear of walnut paste (nutty). Some LHBSs have been able to order it, but I have not asked mine to do it, yet.

Yes, the malt is bold in the Best Bitter I have on tap right now.  Sorry for the derail, as Robert said...back to your regularly scheduled, originally posted, thread.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Low attenuation/missing FG on all batches
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2018, 04:20:47 PM »
Sorry if someone already said this, but have you calibrated your mash thermometer? If it is reading a few degrees low, then that would explain a lot.
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Online Robert

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Re: Low attenuation/missing FG on all batches
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2018, 07:09:01 PM »
I've ound that mash temp only matters for a handful of malts.  For most domestic malts, it makes little difference.

I noticed that an heirloom malt I bought takes a longer mash time and is temperature sensitive, as well.  It is intentionally under-modified as a replica of an 1800's Maris Otter by Crisp called "Chevalier".  It has incredible character worthy of its finickyness (if that is a word).


Not to be pedantic but... "Chevalier" referred to a wide class ("variety" wasn't a thing at that point in history) of barleys, widely grown between 1820-1880, with certain common characteristics.  They were finally abandoned around WWI.  They are possibly in the family trees of modern barleys, though Maris Otter, which was first bred in 1966, is more directly descended from Archer, a class  contemporary with Chevalier.  Crisp has apparently sourced something of the old seed stock.  You think Chevaliers are finicky in the brewhouse, apparently they were absolute nightmares in the field, but prized by brewers in their day.  Where did you get this unicorn?

Very interesting.  I got a sack from my LHBS.  They got it through their distributor and knew I would appreciate it.  Probably something like a few hundred tons were made according to the Crisp site.

http://bsgcraftbrewing.com/Resources/CraftBrewing/PDFs/Product_Sheets/Crisp/6.1.17_CB-Crisp%20Chevallier%20Sell%20Sheet.pdf
Just talked to LHBS, he says if BSG handles it he can order it for me.  I'll get a sack as soon as I have bucket space.  Thanks for the info.  And that includes the mashing tips.  :)
Rob Stein
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