[Pilsner2]

Hello everyone!
Just finished a decoction mash, (my goal is to increase malt profile) for a Festbier.  Got to thinking..I know that's dangerous!
I have read where brewers use a double mash when they have larger amounts of flaked or crushed cereals.
What would be wrong with performing a double mash to hopefully boost overall malt profile, where you have a main mash with perhaps 66% of the grist, and a second smaller mash for the other 33% -since that is what is normally decocted.  The main mash could start with a acid rest at 95 degrees, get an infusion of hot water to bring it to 122 degrees.  Meanwhile the second smaller mash (perhaps a much thicker one) would also go through conversion, and the be brought to boil before being added to the main mash to bring the whole mash to 154 degrees.
Might take some tweaking to get the water/grain ratio's correct.
Any thoughts on this, and what the effect on efficiency might be?   
Thanks.

[Robert]

There's a whole thread on this you'll be interested in.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=30978.0

And this one that led to it

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=30876.0

[Pilsner2]

Yes, I did see this thread. 
While I didn't read all the posts, it seems like the goal there was to use double mashing as a way to brew bigger beers.
Any thoughts on whether or not it would have the desired effect of increased malt profile?

[klickitat jim]

As expected it increases maltiness as it increases gravity. But that increased maltiness is not linear. A 1.090 40 srm 50 ibu beer will be probably maltier than a 1.100 6 srm 100 ibu beer.

Double mash is a way to increase gravity without adding sugar or boil time. I wouldn't expect it to produce what decoction does. Frankly I'm not sure decoction produces what decoction produces

[Robert]

^^^^
I agree, Jim.  Decoction is not magic.  It will extract more color from a dark malt just by boiling out the color in the more roasted husk and such.  It won't get this out of pale malt because it's not there anyway.  The processes in traditional brewhouses, from multiple transfers of decoctions to collection in grants and lengthy kettle boils, guarantee absolute maximum HSA and thermal stress, which will actually seriously reduce malt character.  The character in Czech Pilsner usually attributed to decoction is really just the result of oxidation.

 I'd think the best way to increase malt profile is to carefully select malts, watch O2, keep the boil short and low in intensity, and, where the mash is concerned, don't start below 145°F.  Lower temperature rests nearly invariably lead to dull malt flavor and a thin palate.

[Pilsner2]

Thanks guys!
Sounds like i can speed up my brew day then!

[klickitat jim]

My suggestion is to try your pilsner with and without decoction and choose for yourself

[Robert]

And if you do, please report your results.

[klickitat jim]

+1

My opinion- decoction effects can be nullified by O2 and boil strength. Maybe that's why some folks find no difference. But I also think, with pale beers, that grain selection, reducing O2, reducing boil intensity, etc... will do the job

[The Beerery]

Am I in the twilight zone?


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[Robert]

Am I in the twilight zone?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

🤣

[klickitat jim]

? Am I way off base?

[Robert]

I think Bryan finds us to be uncharacteristically on base, Jim.  Give him some time to breathe ...

[klickitat jim]

Ok cool